42. Overcoming Unfulfillment: How Coaching Helped High-Achieving Surgeon Lindsay Find Joy
Have you ever felt like you've achieved everything you set out to accomplish, but still feel unhappy and unfulfilled? That's exactly how Lindsay, a successful orthopedic surgeon, wife, and mother, felt before she started coaching with us. Despite having a thriving practice, a wonderful family, and a beautiful home, Lindsay found herself at one of the lowest points in her life, struggling with burnout, isolation, and sadness.
As high-achieving women, we often push ourselves to excel in our careers while also trying to be the best partners, mothers, and friends we can be. But what happens when the very mindset and behaviors that helped us succeed start holding us back from truly enjoying our lives?
In this episode, Lindsay shares her transformative journey through coaching and how it helped her break free from the negative thought patterns and behaviors that were keeping her stuck. She discusses the challenges of balancing a demanding medical career with family life, and how coaching gave her the tools to show up as a better version of herself both in and out of the operating room.
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What You’ll Learn from this Episode:
How coaching can help you break free from negative thought patterns and behaviors that are holding you back.
Why high-achieving women often struggle with burnout and unfulfillment, despite achieving their goals.
The importance of recognizing that you always have choices, even in the most demanding circumstances.
How shifting your mindset and perspective can help you find more joy and balance in your life.
The power of believing in yourself and your ability to accomplish your goals in all areas of your life.
Why investing in coaching can be transformative for high-achieving women looking to become the best version of themselves.
How small changes in your daily routine and mindset can lead to significant improvements in your overall happiness and well-being.
Listen to the Full Episode:
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Full Episode Transcript:
Kelle: Hey, Ambitious-Ish listeners, we have got a treat for you today.
Nina: Yes, today we’re joined by our rockstar client, Lindsay. She’s a mom, kick-ass orthopedic surgeon, and just regular badass.
Kelle: And she talks with us today about what it’s like to coach with us for six months this past year.
Nina: Yeah, we get into the stories and behaviors that were holding her back and how she’s feeling now and doing now, in the OR, at home with her kids, when she’s on call, on the trails, and on her yoga mat.
Kelle: Yeah, this was such a fun conversation. Thanks again to Lindsay for sharing her time and her reflections with us.
Nina: Yeah, thank you, thank you. Okay, let’s jump in. This is Ambitious-Ish.
Burnout? Check. Daily overwhelm? Check. Resentment rash, stress, and a complete lack of well-being? Check, check, check! You’re not alone. We’re your hosts, Kelle & Nina, and we are here to help you feel calm, balanced, and empowered so you can redefine success, make choices that feel authentic, and ACTUALLY enjoy the life you work so hard to create. You ready? Let’s go.
Kelle: Hey, I’m Kelle.
Nina: And I’m Nina. Welcome to a special episode today. We are recording with one of our favorite former clients, Lindsay. Hey, Lindsay.
Kelle: Hey, Lindsay.
Lindsay: Hi, guys. Thanks for having me.
Nina: We just got Lindsay right out of the OR, so she’s coming in hot, and this is a treat to spend this time with her. So welcome to Ambitious-Ish.
Lindsay: Super awesome to be here. Thanks for having me, guys.
Nina: Well, we love having you, and why don’t we just take a step back to when we first met you. We met you maybe eight months ago. We’ve just finished coaching with you, a six-month container finished just recently. And so why don’t you take us back to filling out the little form that we ask people to fill out before a consultation with us. What brought you to Kelle and I, what brought you to coaching?
Lindsay: So, it was actually around this time last year, the holidays, where I kind of was at a place where I just was probably one of the most burnt out and isolated and sad I’ve really been in my life. I guess a little bit of background. I’m a surgeon, and there is obviously a lengthy amount of training that goes into becoming a surgeon. I had completed medical school, residency, fellowship, and several years into practice. And yeah, I guess on paper, I had really achieved everything that I had sought out to accomplish.
I had a busy practice in a great location. I had a wonderful family, beautiful house, I mean really just everything that a previous form of me would have dreamed about. And so, it was really surprising to me that I really was kind of in one of my most unhappy states along the whole process. So, I kind of had been doing what I’d done all along, putting my head down, putting one foot in front of the other, just getting through all the hard experiences and the challenges that had been thrown at me, which had worked really well getting me to where I was. But I got to a point where I just couldn’t go any further.
I just didn’t want to keep going the way that I was going, and I knew I had to make a change, but I didn’t know what it was. So, I started with all the traditional stuff, listened to podcasts or reading books on how to kind of rebalance your life, get your priorities back in check. And nothing was really resonating with me. So it wasn’t until January that I talked with a family member who had worked with you guys and just raved about the experience she had and how much of an impact it had on her life.
Coaching wasn’t anything I really had ever considered. I was kind of at the point of well, gosh, do I need therapy for this? I’m having some really big feelings and I’m not really sure how best to handle them, but I sent an inquiry to you guys, we met and it’s been a really remarkable experience and met every single one of the goals I was looking for.
Nina: So cool, yeah, I’m looking back at our notes from February last year. That’s when we met you. Yeah, tell us if you can, just a little bit more specifically, what were you noticing on a daily basis that was just kind of bumming you out about yourself, what was happening?
It was a very weird experience because everything around me was kind of the same as it always had been. It was hard. I was making sacrifices. I was taking time away from family to do parts of my job. Before for some reason, I felt very content about what I was doing, I felt good about it, I was happy doing it. And I was getting to a point where I was no longer as happy with the work that I was doing. It was taking so much from me and so much of my time away from my family.
And I felt like I was building up this amazing life around me that I wasn’t able to enjoy and that made me really sad because I’d been working so hard for so long to have all these things, I finally had, but I felt they were almost intangible. I couldn’t touch them. I couldn’t feel them. I couldn’t experience them. It was kind of a little bit of a surprise to me, honestly, I felt there was something wrong with me because I’m like, “Well, why can’t you enjoy this life that you have?”
But as I learned through the coaching, I was so used to thinking and approaching things in a certain way. It almost was like a block for me to being able to enjoy it. And thanks to the coaching, it’s kind of built down that barrier and now living the life I’m enjoying that I had worked so hard to achieve, exactly as you guys had told me I would.
Nina: Yeah. You mentioned just sort of the way you were approaching everything, the way you were thinking about it was just kind of wasn’t working for you, that old mindset. Can you tell us more about that?
Lindsay: Looking back on some of the reflections that I did, I found that you’re not doing good enough, you can do better than that and kind of really getting down on myself. So, I think that maybe in a period of my life, that was a productive way of getting me through and pushing me to be better, but it really wasn’t working well for anymore.
Nina: Yeah. And where were you noticing this most in your life, what areas?
Lindsay: It was kind of spilling over into every aspect of my life. I was having a really hard time separating the work Lindsay from the home Lindsay. A lot of the stress and the anxiety that was building up at work was really spilling into my home life and my relationships with my kids and my family. And just everything felt very strange. I felt like I was just not the best version of myself. I wasn’t really even happy with the person that I was being when I was showing up with my family.
Nina: Yeah. And so, coming to the coaching and meeting Kelle and I, what was that like?
Lindsay: So, full disclosure, I had no experience with coaching whatsoever, honestly, not much with therapy. So, I really didn’t know what to expect. I was intrigued. I was curious, but didn’t have a lot of expectations. And I feel as if after that first session, just this whole new world opened up to me. I think the thing that was most effective is the focus on coaching is really focusing on being a better version of yourself in the future and moving forward from where you are now to being a better version moving forward.
I remember that Kelle did this amazing sort of mind work where you could imagine a future version of yourself. And it was just so relieving to see the strong, empowered beautiful woman in a beautiful setting and realizing that’s me and that’s achievable and that I know now that that’s the person I can be. And all I have to do is figure out how best to get there. So, I remember I came home, and my husband was like, “You are just a different person today.” Because I felt like this weight had come off of this version of myself that was just putting one foot in front of the other and not really knowing where I was going to end up.
I wasn’t worried anymore. I knew where I wanted to go now. And so, it was all a matter of just working through the process of getting there.
Kelle: Cool.
Nina: What were your thoughts or what was it like coaching with two of us, I know you had never had a coach before, you’ve made that clear, but what was that experience like?
Lindsay: I loved the different input you both brought to the session. So, it was almost like you were getting two different but similar perspectives. Because a lot of the concepts that are introduced in the coaching, I love that it’s science based, but they are sometimes hard to wrap your head around and particularly applying them to your unique situation. And so sometimes, one of you would say something and I had to let it sit for a minute. And then one of you would kind of portray it in a different way. It would finally sink in.
So, it was really helpful to have kind of the two talking heads sort of helping to guide you together. It almost felt like I was supported on both sides to get to my goal. So, I really enjoyed that aspect of the coaching.
Kelle: Yeah, good to know.
Nina: Cool. Yeah, we never know.
Kelle: Yeah.
Nina: That’s cool. How was the process for you, working alongside a coach for, it was actually a little over six months, we had some travel, and we had summer. So, we just kind of adapted to what needed to happen in your schedule and it was awesome. So, what was the process like for you? Were there ups and downs, turnarounds, what did it look like?
Yeah, I think it’s definitely a journey and I think I’ve shared this with you guys, that I again, not knowing really what to expect, I approached this like I would a class where there was a syllabus. Then you were going to be, at this point through the textbook and at the end of the coaching there was going to be a test to show all that I had learned and mastered. And it wasn’t like that at all. And I think that took me a little bit of time to open my mind up to that this really was life coaching. Each session we checked in, how are you feeling? What’s going on?
We talked about what had happened over the week and we sort of worked through the problems individually and that was a very unnerving approach just because I felt very scattered sometimes. I could wrap my mind around the concepts in this situation, but I had a hard time translating it to some of the other problems that I was having. But I think the thing is, you just have to have faith in the process because what I learned is that they were all kind of working together without me knowing it and by the end it all kind of came full circle.
But I would say I had ups, I had downs, I had sessions where I walked away feeling like I’ve got this, I finally get this. And I would be ecstatic and then I’d have a really stressful situation and as you guys talk about, at the grocery cart, we get totally off the track and back into my traditional thinking. It took time, it really is a process. But I can say, even though I was worried six months wasn’t going to be enough, I really feel like it was. I’m in just a much better place.
Nina: Can you draw a picture for us? You’ve given us a really beautiful picture of your before. Can you draw a picture of the after?
Lindsay: Well, I would say some of my goals were to have a better work-life balance. I still wanted to show up for my patients and work really hard. But I wanted to incorporate a little better balance in terms of my family and things that I enjoy. If you look at my life now, honestly, it’s kind of funny, it’s not that different than before. But it’s almost like I’ve been able to put on a totally different set of glasses and I see it in a different way and I appreciate it for what it is. I’m still working a lot. I still have really tough days but the way that I show up for it is totally different.
I’m so happy about how I now show up in those stressful situations whereas before I would look back and be like, “Gosh, I wish I’d handled that better.” I will say I’ve made changes to my schedule, which were scary to me, trying to make more time for family, end the clinic earlier, or maybe go to a yoga class once a week. I never used to do those things because I was almost too scared to, and I did and shockingly, my life didn’t fall apart. If anything, things have been so much better.
I have cut one of my days down so that I start earlier, work through lunch and now I spend the afternoon with my kids. I never used to be able to pick them up from school, but I’ve made time for that and that’s important to me. I’m trying to get home earlier and spend more quality time with them, which is just invaluable, especially as they’re growing. And I’m now taking a little more time for myself. I’m really embracing being able to go for that bike ride that afternoon or go to a yoga class or do things that just fulfill me in other ways so that I can show up to all the other tough parts and really be a better version of myself.
Kelle: That makes sense.
Nina: How are things in the OR?
Lindsay: They’re good. I mean certainly, it’s, as we say, a hot kitchen, things can go wrong. And even when you have best intentions and the best plan, you’ve got to be prepared to shift gears and it’s hard to be a good leader, keep your composure, but still deal with really stressful situations when someone’s life is literally in your hands. I think the awareness and the watcher practice that you guys emphasize has been huge. When you feel those feelings of anxiety or stress or whatever, recognizing them and feeling them. Whereas before, I was always trying to suppress them. I thought they were detrimental.
I can’t even encounter these emotions right now because they’re going to distract me, but the reality is I was just kicking the can down the road or letting them just build up higher, which only amplified the problem. So, I think now when those situations come, I let the stress kind of sink in. I think about it. I’m more clear headed in terms of being able to handle those. I really am showing up in a better way than I was before, so, I’m really pleased about that change.
Nina: That was cool. I remember when you came to us, that’s where we saw a lot of the pressure-cooking sort of manifest or present, if you will, I mean, obviously, obviously in the OR, I mean, where it’s so important. And so, it makes sense that learning to just feel your emotions and not making them a problem, being comfortable in the discomfort, I’m guessing I’m putting words in your mouth. It’s making you a better surgeon.
Lindsay: I would like to think so as well. At least it’s enhanced my relationships with the people that work around me because they’re looking to you to set the tone for how things are going. And if you’re showing those feelings or that stress, it puts everyone off ease. So, they’re still there, but because I’m able to handle them and process them better, I’m able to, I think, perform better as a leader for other people and keep the ship on course.
Kelle: And going back to those emotions that we’re talking about. I remember you saying, “Fine is a productive emotion for me. It’s where I get the most done.”
Lindsay: Yeah. I mean, I think as my anxiety levels were building just in the setting of just this weird place where I was really just so unhappy and so burned out, my emotions were becoming a lot more amplified. I was having higher highs and lower lows, and it was really hard for me to manage those extremes. What I was really shooting for was kind of just level seas and trying to keep better balance with my emotions and not have those extreme variations. Because I do find that I tend to perform the best when things are good, not when they’re super amazing, but also not, oh my gosh, things are really going downhill.
It's that just kind of steady state is where I find I’m in the best mindset to focus and get the job done the way I want to.
Nina: Something really cool that I feel like you showed us, and this has been a pattern with other physicians and doctors and medical clients in the medical field. I think what’s so interesting about our doctor clients is you guys know how to get shit done. You have been trained and molded by med school, fellowship residency, opposite order to get shit done. You guys know how to work so hard. And I feel what I really saw in you, when we kind of pointed that out, we were like, “There’s nothing wrong here, Lindsay. You’re just practicing an old way of being that got you where you are today.”
You are a badass surgeon because of this and there’s another way to think and feel so that you can create different results. And this is what’s really tricky with physicians, I mean, you guys are so badass, you’re such rockstars. We practice this survival, this way of getting through things, and we have to learn another way. Does that land?
Lindsay: Absolutely. And I think this is the thing I struggle with reconciling is, the old me versus the new me as I kind of like to think about it. I mean, I think the training that goes into medicine, a lot of its culture, it’s always been a matter of survival, you just felt like you were in this perpetual state of survival. And it’s sort of emphasized, you don’t have a family. You don’t get sleep. You just keep putting one foot in front of the other. And so, it is a helpful tactic at the time to keep you on track and make sure that you’re doing your job the way you’re supposed to.
So, it served me very well at a time in my life to have that thought process. But I think what we don’t realize is there’s a point where you don’t have to think about it quite that extreme. You’re obviously in a very stressful period of your training, and that’s the way you have to approach it. But when you get to the point where you have a family and have a life, you have a practice and can make decisions on your own, you don’t always have to think about it that way. There’s a better way to do it, as you said.
But it’s really scary because that’s all you’ve known and that’s what your default is, when things are going wrong, you revert right back to that mentality. And a lot of it is negative talk, you can do better. This is not the best performance or why do that. So, you really talk down on yourself. I think for other people in the medical profession, this certainly will resonate with you. It’s really nice to know that there actually is a better way, and you probably could be a better version of yourself if you flip that mentality.
The positive talk, the positive thinking, it feels foreign because of, I think, again, the culture that we’re exposed to. But once you see it, once you see it in practice and see the difference in how it makes you feel, you’ll find you’ll perform just as well as you ever have, if not better, but you feel so much better about it. So, I’m honestly relieved that I’m not still in that state of mind, that I can now see things in a different and healthier perspective.
Nina: That’s so cool. Slowing down is too scary, we heard you say a long time ago, it’s too scary. I need to find the fixes. I need to know what the problem is. Slowing down is not an option. And it’s cool how we can unlearn some of these old beliefs and behaviors, slowly, over time, it doesn’t happen overnight. And I just remember that session, I remember talking to you about how this part of you is so badass, and we just want to create almost a dimmer switch. We don’t want to put med school Lindsay in a box away. We really want to appreciate her. We just don’t need to lead all the time from that place of survival, it’s like this dial that we can play with.
Lindsay: And I think another thing you guys taught me, which was really helpful, is that you always have choices. I think sometimes we get caught in this trap of thinking I don’t have a choice. I’m the only person that can do this, or I’m the only person that can help them, or this is the only way that this can be. And once you break down that thought process and actually poke holes in it, as you guys say, and show, well, no, you always have choices. What are the choices here? And once you recognize them, you make yourself feel better.
Of course, I’m still going to show up for that patient, or I’m going to do that thing, but it at least makes me feel less trapped and that I’m making this decision from a place of being genuine. I truly actually want to do this as opposed to feeling like I have to or no one else will. So, you show up for it in a different way when you really recognize that all of these are choices. It’s just a matter of what you want to do, and then you show up better that way. So that was, I think, another helpful thing, because we do often feel we really don’t sometimes have a choice.
Patients show up, they’ve got unexpected problems, and then you feel like there’s no way out.
Kelle: Yeah, and that brings me to another sense that kind of goes along with what you’re saying right now is that sense, I can’t win. And actually, seeing all the ways that you win all the time, and just making the choices that make it so that you’re winning.
Lindsay: You guys say, “How is that not true?” Any time I have a negative thought that comes up, I have to stop myself and really think about it. How is that not true? I can’t win. Well, wait a second. How is that not true? How am I winning? Once you name all the ways that you are, it’s kind of hard to tell yourself that you’re not. You’re focusing on the negative instead of the positive.
Kelle: So good.
Lindsay: How would you tell a friend, what are you walking away with?
Lindsay: Yeah, I think a lot of people, including myself probably didn’t know or think that coaching would be a helpful thing for their life. It’s sometimes hard to ask for help or to recognize that there’s a better way to do it than you’re doing it. But I think the way I like to think about it, there’s no person I know who can just start training and win a marathon on their own. Very few of the things that we do, we can achieve with excellence without some kind of guidance.
With coaching, you’re getting the benefit of two very experienced professionals who have studied everything there is to know in this area. So, they’re almost helping you get a jumpstart on your training to be the best version of yourself. And you don’t have to be necessarily a CEO or someone that runs Fortune 500 companies or whatever the case may be. Most of the women I know are busting their butts to show up the best way they can, and they’re burnt out and they’re feeling the same feelings that I was feeling.
Whether you’re a surgeon or you’re just running a small practice or a lawyer, whatever the case may be, I mean, these are very common thoughts and feelings that I think are across all women, but there’s a better way to do it. And I think coaching is probably more helpful for most of us than we realize because it allows us to be a better version of ourselves than we ever thought, kind of like a coach or trainer would help you run the very best marathon of your life. You may not win, you may not be the winner, but you’re going to run the best race you ever have with their help.
So, I think that’s kind of how I would talk to a friend and be like, “You may think you’ve got this, great, and that’s fine, but you may not know how good a race you could run if you tried getting some help from people through coaching.”
Nina: That’s such a cool way to put it. And so, Lindsay, how complete do you feel after the container?
Lindsay: Honestly guys, I feel great. There’s a little part of me that’s a little scared. The traditional me always was waiting for the other shoe to fall or things to kind of fall through. It was always like the yin and the yang. You had something really good happen and then, oh man, something rough would happen, but I’ve been the happiest I’ve ever been in my life. My relationships are in the best place they’ve ever been. I’m really shocked and just thrilled at sort of how I’m feeling.
And again, when I actually look at what’s going on around me, not a lot has changed, it’s just I’ve really been able to show up in a better way. There are still tough times. I still have moments where I revert back to old thinking, but I think the tools really help to keep me on track. And there’s going to be really tough times ahead, of course, I’m aware of that, but I feel a lot more confident and empowered and genuinely happy. So, we’ll get through it, whatever it is.
Nina: That’s amazing. We’ll take it.
Kelle: You’re so awesome.
Nina: Yeah, you’re awesome.
Lindsay: You guys are awesome.
Nina: How about this though, before we sign off, how about a new thought or belief you have about yourself that maybe even surprises you that you have it now, just something you believe about yourself that you’re like, “Huh, yeah.”
Lindsay: I guess it would be that I am more capable of things than I thought. And I guess I’ll say that I always believed myself to be capable of things when it came to hard work, to getting a job done. I always believed in myself to do that, but I didn’t always believe in myself to apply that to other areas of my life. And I think now I really do believe in myself to be able to accomplish things I never dreamt possible in other areas that really augment who I am as a person and fulfill me, whether it be my personal goals, running a beast spartan race.
Nina: Yeah, that was badass.
Lindsay: Go to a concert or just engage with my kids in a different way than just being a work mom. I think I now believe that I can show up in a much different and better way for every other aspect of my life and I don’t think I really felt that before. I felt like it was my job to be a worker and get the job done and do the best I could with everything else.
Kelle: 100%, yeah.
Nina: I am just looking at you right now with the superhero cape on. Do you remember this conversation?
Lindsay: I do, and I say it every time.
Nina: Do you?
Lindsay: Yeah. It’s hard, I think that the times that I always felt the lowest was when I was on call or when I was tired. And call is fairly often, which means that you have to be available to go into the hospital and take care of somebody at all hours of the night. It doesn’t matter how complex the issue, it doesn’t matter what else is going on in your life, you’ve got to drop and go. And it was always tough when I’d be working long weeks, and I wouldn’t see my kids for multiple days on end. I would be sitting around the dinner table, and my pager would go off and I’d say, "Kids, I have to go."
And my internal sense of sadness and just disappointment would obviously carry on to them and everyone’s faces would just drop. And just nobody felt good about it and just made it even more of a negative experience. But talking to you guys, we figured out a way. We were like, “How can we approach this differently?” And now instead of those feelings of sadness and disappointment, I go, “Kids, go get my Superman cape, mommy’s got to go to the hospital and take care of somebody.” And they go and grab the cape, and they bring it and it just gives them so much joy.
And it makes me feel better knowing that, again, I’m just showing up in a better way, handling the same problem. So yeah, the super cape trick has really worked.
Nina: It’s awesome.
Kelle: You really are a superhero, yeah, that’s so cool.
Nina: If someone’s on the fence about pursuing coaching, even just understanding what a coach is, making this kind of investment, what would you suggest, how would you jump in?
Lindsay: I would strongly encourage, and I do to a lot of my friends to at least entertain the idea of coaching. Because honestly, even if you don’t think that it’s something that you need, it will probably make you a better version of yourself than you imagine. All of us can be better or we can be more aware of how we’re feeling or how we’re navigating our lives. So, I feel like there’s very few people who would not benefit from coaching, really the goal is to be the very best version of yourself, and I think every single one of us wants that regardless of where you are.
So, I’m a very firm believer in coaching and I encourage you to just give it a try. What do you have to lose?
Nina: Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s awesome, cool. Alright, that’s awesome, thank you, Lindsay. Thank you so much for your time today.
Kelle: Thank you so much.
Lindsay: My pleasure. I’m so sorry again, guys.
Nina: No, you’re so good. You’re so good. I mean, we literally ripped Lindsay from the OR, so thank you. Thank you again. Everyone’s safe. Everyone’s fine.
Lindsay: Everything’s good now.
Nina: We do this responsibly.
Lindsay: Yeah, absolutely, guys, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate it. Everything I said was entirely genuine. I’m so amazed at how I’m feeling. It’s so refreshing and really special so thank you.
Nina: You’re so welcome. So, proud of you, it’s such an honor.
Kelle: You are so welcome, yes.
Nina: Yeah, it’s just great to see you. I miss you.
Kelle: It’s such a pleasure.
Lindsay: I miss you too, but I’m glad that you’re out there helping other people.
Kelle: Absolutely. Alright, thanks, Lindsay.
Nina: Yeah, we’ll circle back. Great to see you, okay, bye.
Nina: Hey everyone, if you want more live access to me and Kelle, you have to join our email list.
Kelle: Yes, we’ll come to your email box every Tuesday and Thursday.
Nina: You can ask us questions, get clarity and get coached.
Kelle: We offer monthly free email coaching when you’re on our list and you’re the first to know about trainings, events and other free coaching opportunities.
Nina: Just go to kelleandnina.com. That’s K E L L E and nina.com to sign up.
Kelle: Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode of Ambitious-Ish.
Nina: If you’re ready to align your ambitions with your heart and feel more calm, balanced, and connected, visit https://www.kelleandnina.com/ for more information about how to work with us and make sure you get on our list.
Kelle: See you in the next episode!
Nina: Yes, today we’re joined by our rockstar client, Lindsay. She’s a mom, kick-ass orthopedic surgeon, and just regular badass.
Kelle: And she talks with us today about what it’s like to coach with us for six months this past year.
Nina: Yeah, we get into the stories and behaviors that were holding her back and how she’s feeling now and doing now, in the OR, at home with her kids, when she’s on call, on the trails, and on her yoga mat.
Kelle: Yeah, this was such a fun conversation. Thanks again to Lindsay for sharing her time and her reflections with us.
Nina: Yeah, thank you, thank you. Okay, let’s jump in. This is Ambitious-Ish.
Burnout? Check. Daily overwhelm? Check. Resentment rash, stress, and a complete lack of well-being? Check, check, check! You’re not alone. We’re your hosts, Kelle & Nina, and we are here to help you feel calm, balanced, and empowered so you can redefine success, make choices that feel authentic, and ACTUALLY enjoy the life you work so hard to create. You ready? Let’s go.
Kelle: Hey, I’m Kelle.
Nina: And I’m Nina. Welcome to a special episode today. We are recording with one of our favorite former clients, Lindsay. Hey, Lindsay.
Kelle: Hey, Lindsay.
Lindsay: Hi, guys. Thanks for having me.
Nina: We just got Lindsay right out of the OR, so she’s coming in hot, and this is a treat to spend this time with her. So welcome to Ambitious-Ish.
Lindsay: Super awesome to be here. Thanks for having me, guys.
Nina: Well, we love having you, and why don’t we just take a step back to when we first met you. We met you maybe eight months ago. We’ve just finished coaching with you, a six-month container finished just recently. And so why don’t you take us back to filling out the little form that we ask people to fill out before a consultation with us. What brought you to Kelle and I, what brought you to coaching?
Lindsay: So, it was actually around this time last year, the holidays, where I kind of was at a place where I just was probably one of the most burnt out and isolated and sad I’ve really been in my life. I guess a little bit of background. I’m a surgeon, and there is obviously a lengthy amount of training that goes into becoming a surgeon. I had completed medical school, residency, fellowship, and several years into practice. And yeah, I guess on paper, I had really achieved everything that I had sought out to accomplish.
I had a busy practice in a great location. I had a wonderful family, beautiful house, I mean really just everything that a previous form of me would have dreamed about. And so, it was really surprising to me that I really was kind of in one of my most unhappy states along the whole process. So, I kind of had been doing what I’d done all along, putting my head down, putting one foot in front of the other, just getting through all the hard experiences and the challenges that had been thrown at me, which had worked really well getting me to where I was. But I got to a point where I just couldn’t go any further.
I just didn’t want to keep going the way that I was going, and I knew I had to make a change, but I didn’t know what it was. So, I started with all the traditional stuff, listened to podcasts or reading books on how to kind of rebalance your life, get your priorities back in check. And nothing was really resonating with me. So it wasn’t until January that I talked with a family member who had worked with you guys and just raved about the experience she had and how much of an impact it had on her life.
Coaching wasn’t anything I really had ever considered. I was kind of at the point of well, gosh, do I need therapy for this? I’m having some really big feelings and I’m not really sure how best to handle them, but I sent an inquiry to you guys, we met and it’s been a really remarkable experience and met every single one of the goals I was looking for.
Nina: So cool, yeah, I’m looking back at our notes from February last year. That’s when we met you. Yeah, tell us if you can, just a little bit more specifically, what were you noticing on a daily basis that was just kind of bumming you out about yourself, what was happening?
It was a very weird experience because everything around me was kind of the same as it always had been. It was hard. I was making sacrifices. I was taking time away from family to do parts of my job. Before for some reason, I felt very content about what I was doing, I felt good about it, I was happy doing it. And I was getting to a point where I was no longer as happy with the work that I was doing. It was taking so much from me and so much of my time away from my family.
And I felt like I was building up this amazing life around me that I wasn’t able to enjoy and that made me really sad because I’d been working so hard for so long to have all these things, I finally had, but I felt they were almost intangible. I couldn’t touch them. I couldn’t feel them. I couldn’t experience them. It was kind of a little bit of a surprise to me, honestly, I felt there was something wrong with me because I’m like, “Well, why can’t you enjoy this life that you have?”
But as I learned through the coaching, I was so used to thinking and approaching things in a certain way. It almost was like a block for me to being able to enjoy it. And thanks to the coaching, it’s kind of built down that barrier and now living the life I’m enjoying that I had worked so hard to achieve, exactly as you guys had told me I would.
Nina: Yeah. You mentioned just sort of the way you were approaching everything, the way you were thinking about it was just kind of wasn’t working for you, that old mindset. Can you tell us more about that?
Lindsay: Looking back on some of the reflections that I did, I found that you’re not doing good enough, you can do better than that and kind of really getting down on myself. So, I think that maybe in a period of my life, that was a productive way of getting me through and pushing me to be better, but it really wasn’t working well for anymore.
Nina: Yeah. And where were you noticing this most in your life, what areas?
Lindsay: It was kind of spilling over into every aspect of my life. I was having a really hard time separating the work Lindsay from the home Lindsay. A lot of the stress and the anxiety that was building up at work was really spilling into my home life and my relationships with my kids and my family. And just everything felt very strange. I felt like I was just not the best version of myself. I wasn’t really even happy with the person that I was being when I was showing up with my family.
Nina: Yeah. And so, coming to the coaching and meeting Kelle and I, what was that like?
Lindsay: So, full disclosure, I had no experience with coaching whatsoever, honestly, not much with therapy. So, I really didn’t know what to expect. I was intrigued. I was curious, but didn’t have a lot of expectations. And I feel as if after that first session, just this whole new world opened up to me. I think the thing that was most effective is the focus on coaching is really focusing on being a better version of yourself in the future and moving forward from where you are now to being a better version moving forward.
I remember that Kelle did this amazing sort of mind work where you could imagine a future version of yourself. And it was just so relieving to see the strong, empowered beautiful woman in a beautiful setting and realizing that’s me and that’s achievable and that I know now that that’s the person I can be. And all I have to do is figure out how best to get there. So, I remember I came home, and my husband was like, “You are just a different person today.” Because I felt like this weight had come off of this version of myself that was just putting one foot in front of the other and not really knowing where I was going to end up.
I wasn’t worried anymore. I knew where I wanted to go now. And so, it was all a matter of just working through the process of getting there.
Kelle: Cool.
Nina: What were your thoughts or what was it like coaching with two of us, I know you had never had a coach before, you’ve made that clear, but what was that experience like?
Lindsay: I loved the different input you both brought to the session. So, it was almost like you were getting two different but similar perspectives. Because a lot of the concepts that are introduced in the coaching, I love that it’s science based, but they are sometimes hard to wrap your head around and particularly applying them to your unique situation. And so sometimes, one of you would say something and I had to let it sit for a minute. And then one of you would kind of portray it in a different way. It would finally sink in.
So, it was really helpful to have kind of the two talking heads sort of helping to guide you together. It almost felt like I was supported on both sides to get to my goal. So, I really enjoyed that aspect of the coaching.
Kelle: Yeah, good to know.
Nina: Cool. Yeah, we never know.
Kelle: Yeah.
Nina: That’s cool. How was the process for you, working alongside a coach for, it was actually a little over six months, we had some travel, and we had summer. So, we just kind of adapted to what needed to happen in your schedule and it was awesome. So, what was the process like for you? Were there ups and downs, turnarounds, what did it look like?
Yeah, I think it’s definitely a journey and I think I’ve shared this with you guys, that I again, not knowing really what to expect, I approached this like I would a class where there was a syllabus. Then you were going to be, at this point through the textbook and at the end of the coaching there was going to be a test to show all that I had learned and mastered. And it wasn’t like that at all. And I think that took me a little bit of time to open my mind up to that this really was life coaching. Each session we checked in, how are you feeling? What’s going on?
We talked about what had happened over the week and we sort of worked through the problems individually and that was a very unnerving approach just because I felt very scattered sometimes. I could wrap my mind around the concepts in this situation, but I had a hard time translating it to some of the other problems that I was having. But I think the thing is, you just have to have faith in the process because what I learned is that they were all kind of working together without me knowing it and by the end it all kind of came full circle.
But I would say I had ups, I had downs, I had sessions where I walked away feeling like I’ve got this, I finally get this. And I would be ecstatic and then I’d have a really stressful situation and as you guys talk about, at the grocery cart, we get totally off the track and back into my traditional thinking. It took time, it really is a process. But I can say, even though I was worried six months wasn’t going to be enough, I really feel like it was. I’m in just a much better place.
Nina: Can you draw a picture for us? You’ve given us a really beautiful picture of your before. Can you draw a picture of the after?
Lindsay: Well, I would say some of my goals were to have a better work-life balance. I still wanted to show up for my patients and work really hard. But I wanted to incorporate a little better balance in terms of my family and things that I enjoy. If you look at my life now, honestly, it’s kind of funny, it’s not that different than before. But it’s almost like I’ve been able to put on a totally different set of glasses and I see it in a different way and I appreciate it for what it is. I’m still working a lot. I still have really tough days but the way that I show up for it is totally different.
I’m so happy about how I now show up in those stressful situations whereas before I would look back and be like, “Gosh, I wish I’d handled that better.” I will say I’ve made changes to my schedule, which were scary to me, trying to make more time for family, end the clinic earlier, or maybe go to a yoga class once a week. I never used to do those things because I was almost too scared to, and I did and shockingly, my life didn’t fall apart. If anything, things have been so much better.
I have cut one of my days down so that I start earlier, work through lunch and now I spend the afternoon with my kids. I never used to be able to pick them up from school, but I’ve made time for that and that’s important to me. I’m trying to get home earlier and spend more quality time with them, which is just invaluable, especially as they’re growing. And I’m now taking a little more time for myself. I’m really embracing being able to go for that bike ride that afternoon or go to a yoga class or do things that just fulfill me in other ways so that I can show up to all the other tough parts and really be a better version of myself.
Kelle: That makes sense.
Nina: How are things in the OR?
Lindsay: They’re good. I mean certainly, it’s, as we say, a hot kitchen, things can go wrong. And even when you have best intentions and the best plan, you’ve got to be prepared to shift gears and it’s hard to be a good leader, keep your composure, but still deal with really stressful situations when someone’s life is literally in your hands. I think the awareness and the watcher practice that you guys emphasize has been huge. When you feel those feelings of anxiety or stress or whatever, recognizing them and feeling them. Whereas before, I was always trying to suppress them. I thought they were detrimental.
I can’t even encounter these emotions right now because they’re going to distract me, but the reality is I was just kicking the can down the road or letting them just build up higher, which only amplified the problem. So, I think now when those situations come, I let the stress kind of sink in. I think about it. I’m more clear headed in terms of being able to handle those. I really am showing up in a better way than I was before, so, I’m really pleased about that change.
Nina: That was cool. I remember when you came to us, that’s where we saw a lot of the pressure-cooking sort of manifest or present, if you will, I mean, obviously, obviously in the OR, I mean, where it’s so important. And so, it makes sense that learning to just feel your emotions and not making them a problem, being comfortable in the discomfort, I’m guessing I’m putting words in your mouth. It’s making you a better surgeon.
Lindsay: I would like to think so as well. At least it’s enhanced my relationships with the people that work around me because they’re looking to you to set the tone for how things are going. And if you’re showing those feelings or that stress, it puts everyone off ease. So, they’re still there, but because I’m able to handle them and process them better, I’m able to, I think, perform better as a leader for other people and keep the ship on course.
Kelle: And going back to those emotions that we’re talking about. I remember you saying, “Fine is a productive emotion for me. It’s where I get the most done.”
Lindsay: Yeah. I mean, I think as my anxiety levels were building just in the setting of just this weird place where I was really just so unhappy and so burned out, my emotions were becoming a lot more amplified. I was having higher highs and lower lows, and it was really hard for me to manage those extremes. What I was really shooting for was kind of just level seas and trying to keep better balance with my emotions and not have those extreme variations. Because I do find that I tend to perform the best when things are good, not when they’re super amazing, but also not, oh my gosh, things are really going downhill.
It's that just kind of steady state is where I find I’m in the best mindset to focus and get the job done the way I want to.
Nina: Something really cool that I feel like you showed us, and this has been a pattern with other physicians and doctors and medical clients in the medical field. I think what’s so interesting about our doctor clients is you guys know how to get shit done. You have been trained and molded by med school, fellowship residency, opposite order to get shit done. You guys know how to work so hard. And I feel what I really saw in you, when we kind of pointed that out, we were like, “There’s nothing wrong here, Lindsay. You’re just practicing an old way of being that got you where you are today.”
You are a badass surgeon because of this and there’s another way to think and feel so that you can create different results. And this is what’s really tricky with physicians, I mean, you guys are so badass, you’re such rockstars. We practice this survival, this way of getting through things, and we have to learn another way. Does that land?
Lindsay: Absolutely. And I think this is the thing I struggle with reconciling is, the old me versus the new me as I kind of like to think about it. I mean, I think the training that goes into medicine, a lot of its culture, it’s always been a matter of survival, you just felt like you were in this perpetual state of survival. And it’s sort of emphasized, you don’t have a family. You don’t get sleep. You just keep putting one foot in front of the other. And so, it is a helpful tactic at the time to keep you on track and make sure that you’re doing your job the way you’re supposed to.
So, it served me very well at a time in my life to have that thought process. But I think what we don’t realize is there’s a point where you don’t have to think about it quite that extreme. You’re obviously in a very stressful period of your training, and that’s the way you have to approach it. But when you get to the point where you have a family and have a life, you have a practice and can make decisions on your own, you don’t always have to think about it that way. There’s a better way to do it, as you said.
But it’s really scary because that’s all you’ve known and that’s what your default is, when things are going wrong, you revert right back to that mentality. And a lot of it is negative talk, you can do better. This is not the best performance or why do that. So, you really talk down on yourself. I think for other people in the medical profession, this certainly will resonate with you. It’s really nice to know that there actually is a better way, and you probably could be a better version of yourself if you flip that mentality.
The positive talk, the positive thinking, it feels foreign because of, I think, again, the culture that we’re exposed to. But once you see it, once you see it in practice and see the difference in how it makes you feel, you’ll find you’ll perform just as well as you ever have, if not better, but you feel so much better about it. So, I’m honestly relieved that I’m not still in that state of mind, that I can now see things in a different and healthier perspective.
Nina: That’s so cool. Slowing down is too scary, we heard you say a long time ago, it’s too scary. I need to find the fixes. I need to know what the problem is. Slowing down is not an option. And it’s cool how we can unlearn some of these old beliefs and behaviors, slowly, over time, it doesn’t happen overnight. And I just remember that session, I remember talking to you about how this part of you is so badass, and we just want to create almost a dimmer switch. We don’t want to put med school Lindsay in a box away. We really want to appreciate her. We just don’t need to lead all the time from that place of survival, it’s like this dial that we can play with.
Lindsay: And I think another thing you guys taught me, which was really helpful, is that you always have choices. I think sometimes we get caught in this trap of thinking I don’t have a choice. I’m the only person that can do this, or I’m the only person that can help them, or this is the only way that this can be. And once you break down that thought process and actually poke holes in it, as you guys say, and show, well, no, you always have choices. What are the choices here? And once you recognize them, you make yourself feel better.
Of course, I’m still going to show up for that patient, or I’m going to do that thing, but it at least makes me feel less trapped and that I’m making this decision from a place of being genuine. I truly actually want to do this as opposed to feeling like I have to or no one else will. So, you show up for it in a different way when you really recognize that all of these are choices. It’s just a matter of what you want to do, and then you show up better that way. So that was, I think, another helpful thing, because we do often feel we really don’t sometimes have a choice.
Patients show up, they’ve got unexpected problems, and then you feel like there’s no way out.
Kelle: Yeah, and that brings me to another sense that kind of goes along with what you’re saying right now is that sense, I can’t win. And actually, seeing all the ways that you win all the time, and just making the choices that make it so that you’re winning.
Lindsay: You guys say, “How is that not true?” Any time I have a negative thought that comes up, I have to stop myself and really think about it. How is that not true? I can’t win. Well, wait a second. How is that not true? How am I winning? Once you name all the ways that you are, it’s kind of hard to tell yourself that you’re not. You’re focusing on the negative instead of the positive.
Kelle: So good.
Lindsay: How would you tell a friend, what are you walking away with?
Lindsay: Yeah, I think a lot of people, including myself probably didn’t know or think that coaching would be a helpful thing for their life. It’s sometimes hard to ask for help or to recognize that there’s a better way to do it than you’re doing it. But I think the way I like to think about it, there’s no person I know who can just start training and win a marathon on their own. Very few of the things that we do, we can achieve with excellence without some kind of guidance.
With coaching, you’re getting the benefit of two very experienced professionals who have studied everything there is to know in this area. So, they’re almost helping you get a jumpstart on your training to be the best version of yourself. And you don’t have to be necessarily a CEO or someone that runs Fortune 500 companies or whatever the case may be. Most of the women I know are busting their butts to show up the best way they can, and they’re burnt out and they’re feeling the same feelings that I was feeling.
Whether you’re a surgeon or you’re just running a small practice or a lawyer, whatever the case may be, I mean, these are very common thoughts and feelings that I think are across all women, but there’s a better way to do it. And I think coaching is probably more helpful for most of us than we realize because it allows us to be a better version of ourselves than we ever thought, kind of like a coach or trainer would help you run the very best marathon of your life. You may not win, you may not be the winner, but you’re going to run the best race you ever have with their help.
So, I think that’s kind of how I would talk to a friend and be like, “You may think you’ve got this, great, and that’s fine, but you may not know how good a race you could run if you tried getting some help from people through coaching.”
Nina: That’s such a cool way to put it. And so, Lindsay, how complete do you feel after the container?
Lindsay: Honestly guys, I feel great. There’s a little part of me that’s a little scared. The traditional me always was waiting for the other shoe to fall or things to kind of fall through. It was always like the yin and the yang. You had something really good happen and then, oh man, something rough would happen, but I’ve been the happiest I’ve ever been in my life. My relationships are in the best place they’ve ever been. I’m really shocked and just thrilled at sort of how I’m feeling.
And again, when I actually look at what’s going on around me, not a lot has changed, it’s just I’ve really been able to show up in a better way. There are still tough times. I still have moments where I revert back to old thinking, but I think the tools really help to keep me on track. And there’s going to be really tough times ahead, of course, I’m aware of that, but I feel a lot more confident and empowered and genuinely happy. So, we’ll get through it, whatever it is.
Nina: That’s amazing. We’ll take it.
Kelle: You’re so awesome.
Nina: Yeah, you’re awesome.
Lindsay: You guys are awesome.
Nina: How about this though, before we sign off, how about a new thought or belief you have about yourself that maybe even surprises you that you have it now, just something you believe about yourself that you’re like, “Huh, yeah.”
Lindsay: I guess it would be that I am more capable of things than I thought. And I guess I’ll say that I always believed myself to be capable of things when it came to hard work, to getting a job done. I always believed in myself to do that, but I didn’t always believe in myself to apply that to other areas of my life. And I think now I really do believe in myself to be able to accomplish things I never dreamt possible in other areas that really augment who I am as a person and fulfill me, whether it be my personal goals, running a beast spartan race.
Nina: Yeah, that was badass.
Lindsay: Go to a concert or just engage with my kids in a different way than just being a work mom. I think I now believe that I can show up in a much different and better way for every other aspect of my life and I don’t think I really felt that before. I felt like it was my job to be a worker and get the job done and do the best I could with everything else.
Kelle: 100%, yeah.
Nina: I am just looking at you right now with the superhero cape on. Do you remember this conversation?
Lindsay: I do, and I say it every time.
Nina: Do you?
Lindsay: Yeah. It’s hard, I think that the times that I always felt the lowest was when I was on call or when I was tired. And call is fairly often, which means that you have to be available to go into the hospital and take care of somebody at all hours of the night. It doesn’t matter how complex the issue, it doesn’t matter what else is going on in your life, you’ve got to drop and go. And it was always tough when I’d be working long weeks, and I wouldn’t see my kids for multiple days on end. I would be sitting around the dinner table, and my pager would go off and I’d say, "Kids, I have to go."
And my internal sense of sadness and just disappointment would obviously carry on to them and everyone’s faces would just drop. And just nobody felt good about it and just made it even more of a negative experience. But talking to you guys, we figured out a way. We were like, “How can we approach this differently?” And now instead of those feelings of sadness and disappointment, I go, “Kids, go get my Superman cape, mommy’s got to go to the hospital and take care of somebody.” And they go and grab the cape, and they bring it and it just gives them so much joy.
And it makes me feel better knowing that, again, I’m just showing up in a better way, handling the same problem. So yeah, the super cape trick has really worked.
Nina: It’s awesome.
Kelle: You really are a superhero, yeah, that’s so cool.
Nina: If someone’s on the fence about pursuing coaching, even just understanding what a coach is, making this kind of investment, what would you suggest, how would you jump in?
Lindsay: I would strongly encourage, and I do to a lot of my friends to at least entertain the idea of coaching. Because honestly, even if you don’t think that it’s something that you need, it will probably make you a better version of yourself than you imagine. All of us can be better or we can be more aware of how we’re feeling or how we’re navigating our lives. So, I feel like there’s very few people who would not benefit from coaching, really the goal is to be the very best version of yourself, and I think every single one of us wants that regardless of where you are.
So, I’m a very firm believer in coaching and I encourage you to just give it a try. What do you have to lose?
Nina: Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s awesome, cool. Alright, that’s awesome, thank you, Lindsay. Thank you so much for your time today.
Kelle: Thank you so much.
Lindsay: My pleasure. I’m so sorry again, guys.
Nina: No, you’re so good. You’re so good. I mean, we literally ripped Lindsay from the OR, so thank you. Thank you again. Everyone’s safe. Everyone’s fine.
Lindsay: Everything’s good now.
Nina: We do this responsibly.
Lindsay: Yeah, absolutely, guys, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate it. Everything I said was entirely genuine. I’m so amazed at how I’m feeling. It’s so refreshing and really special so thank you.
Nina: You’re so welcome. So, proud of you, it’s such an honor.
Kelle: You are so welcome, yes.
Nina: Yeah, it’s just great to see you. I miss you.
Kelle: It’s such a pleasure.
Lindsay: I miss you too, but I’m glad that you’re out there helping other people.
Kelle: Absolutely. Alright, thanks, Lindsay.
Nina: Yeah, we’ll circle back. Great to see you, okay, bye.
Nina: Hey everyone, if you want more live access to me and Kelle, you have to join our email list.
Kelle: Yes, we’ll come to your email box every Tuesday and Thursday.
Nina: You can ask us questions, get clarity and get coached.
Kelle: We offer monthly free email coaching when you’re on our list and you’re the first to know about trainings, events and other free coaching opportunities.
Nina: Just go to kelleandnina.com. That’s K E L L E and nina.com to sign up.
Kelle: Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode of Ambitious-Ish.
Nina: If you’re ready to align your ambitions with your heart and feel more calm, balanced, and connected, visit https://www.kelleandnina.com/ for more information about how to work with us and make sure you get on our list.
Kelle: See you in the next episode!
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