51. Dealing with Difficult People: Tools for Improving Any Relationship
Do you ever feel completely derailed by that one difficult person in your life? Whether it's a coworker, client, or even a family member, challenging relationships can leave us feeling reactive, defensive, and far from the centered leaders we strive to be.
In this episode, we dive deep into our favorite tools for navigating these tricky interactions with grace and ease. We explore powerful strategies for regulating your nervous system, setting boundaries, and showing up as your best self, no matter how others behave.
Join us this week as we break down exactly how to stop arguing with reality, drop your secret manuals, and lead from a place of empowered clarity. If you're ready to stop letting difficult people hijack your emotions and start showing up as the grounded, capable leader you are, this episode is a must-listen.
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What You’ll Learn from this Episode:
Why regulating your nervous system is crucial for responding vs. reacting in challenging moments.
How to use the power of the pause to calm yourself and think rationally.
The secret instruction manuals you have for others (that they never agreed to).
Why accepting that "X is being X" is the key to ending your suffering.
What's actually in your control when dealing with difficult people.
How shifting your own behavior can transform any relationship dynamic.
Listen to the Full Episode:
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Full Episode Transcript:
Nina Lynch: Maybe it's that direct report who never meets a deadline, your boss who doesn't listen to a word you say when you're voicing your concerns, or that peer who flies off the handle and loves to throw you under the bus in meetings. Difficult people are part of our professional lives.
Kelle Cobble: Yeah, it could be a coworker, a partner, a client, peers, competitors, collaborators, bosses, managers, team members.
Nina: And what we see all the time in our coaching practice is how these challenging interactions can completely derail even the most competent leaders.
Kelle: Yeah, you're crushing it in a meeting, feeling totally in your zone, and then that person makes a comment that sends you into a spiral.
Nina: Right? And suddenly you're not showing up as the leader you want to be. You're reactive, defensive, maybe even a little passive-aggressive and snarky. We've all been there. Okay, so today we're breaking down some of our favorite tools for handling these situations.
Kelle: Yeah, before we get going, it goes without saying, but we're just going to say it anyway. Dealing with challenging people doesn't just happen in our professional lives. Difficult people are all around us. People with differing opinions that love to voice them. Family members like, ahem, mother-in-laws, spouses, partners, friends, grown children, sibling, strangers.
There is no shortage. So if you're thinking this doesn't pertain to you because you don't have difficult people at work, what we ask is you listen in on how you can improve any relationship, any conflict. We are 100% positive this will help.
Nina: This is gonna be a fun one. Let's get going. This is Ambitious-Ish.
Burnout? Check. Daily overwhelm? Check. Resentment rash, stress, and a complete lack of well-being? Check, check, check! You’re not alone. We’re your hosts, Kelle & Nina, and we are here to help you feel calm, balanced, and empowered so you can redefine success, make choices that feel authentic, and ACTUALLY enjoy the life you work so hard to create. You ready? Let’s go.
Kelle: Hey, I'm Kelle.
Nina: And I'm Nina. Okay, let's dive in. You know exactly what we're talking about. That feeling in your stomach when you see a certain name pop up on your calendar, like that high-maintenance client?
Nina: Okay, remember when we were working with one of our fav clients and she had a challenging listing she was working with? So she's a top real estate agent in a luxury market, so selling this guy's house, her client's house, would mean a six-figure payout. He called her all the time, and she would just roll her eyes and take the call. And it got to where she was deciding whether it was really worth it to work with this client or not to continue to represent this guy's listing.
Kelle: She was really deciding between the eventual paycheck and her stress level, mental health, and sanity.
Nina: Yeah, there was a lot of pain there until we taught her the tools to take care of herself first and then learn how to deal with a difficult client.
Kelle: Right. We're going to break all this down. Okay, so picture this. You're sitting in another team meeting, right? And that colleague, you know the one, is doing exactly what they always do. Interrupting, derailing the conversation, making it all about them.
Kelle: And you're sitting there, blood pressure rising, wishing they would just shut the F up and stop wasting everyone's time. I know like y'all can identify with this.
Nina: I can literally feel the temperature build in my body just thinking about this.
Kelle: Oh yes. This is where we start with something that's absolutely crucial but often overlooked. Regulating your nervous system.
Nina: Yeah, let's talk about what happens in your body when you're dealing with conflict. Okay? Your heart rate increases, your breathing gets shallow, maybe your palms get sweaty, maybe you start sweating like me, period. Just stress sweat. Basically, your body is going into survival mode.
Kelle: And when we're in that state, we literally can't access our executive functioning. You know that part of our brain that helps us respond thoughtfully instead of reactively? We’re operating from our primitive brain, which is all about survival.
Nina: Yeah, I'm thinking about this former client we worked with a couple years ago. We'll call her Sarah She was the CEO and she was in a meeting with one of her directors. They did not see eye to eye on this particular issue and things got a little fiery. He started yelling at her and her nervous system went immediately into fight-or-flight and she did something that led her board of directors to ultimately hire us. She matched his energy and his dysregulated nervous system and yelled back.
At that point, she was in a complete survival state, right? Not thinking straight, not able to be calm and creative, not collaborative, not able to show us the leader she wanted to be. This wasn't the first time, unfortunately. Her volatility was giving her, creating sort of a reputation for her. Her ability to lead was being compromised and her career was suffering.
Kelle: And listen, she was and still is an extremely capable leader. It's just that she was allowing her masculine energy to kind of run the show, being dominant and assertive and showing her strength and authority. And it makes complete sense. This drive, this powerhouse strength she had had gotten her to where she was. I mean, she's a freaking CEO, right?
And we didn't want to take that away, that drive, that fire away, but we needed to add in some softer and more feminine qualities as well, like vulnerability and empathy and patience. We call this being energy. So there's being energy, what people usually refer to as feminine qualities, and the doing energy is the more masculine qualities.
And I'm getting a little bit off topic here. We'll break all this down on another episode, but why I bring this up is you can't be patient and empathetic when you're in survival mode. It's all about fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. You're no longer thinking straight or rational, and it's not a great way to lead.
Nina: This is where we need to practice what we call the pause. Pause and breathe, but really just pause. Before you react and speak up in that heated meeting or react to that triggering email, you need to take a moment to regulate that nervous system. This can look like taking some deep breaths in through your nose and out your mouth. This turns on your parasympathetic nervous system, gets you out of survival, and gives you a chance to, well, pause.
Sometimes you need to remove yourself from the situation. This can look like excusing yourself to use the restroom, walking outside for a moment of fresh air, feeling your feet on the earth and grounding yourself, all the while reminding yourself you are safe. Orienting yourself to your surroundings is another way to calm yourself and get into the present moment. This looks like looking around and naming what you see.
Kelle: Yeah, just some somatic tools there, right? And it doesn't have to be a long pause, but here's what we know. When you know how to take care of yourself and your nervous system in the moment, you put your prefrontal cortex back online, that part of your brain where you're rational, where you're the CEO, instead of being on autopilot and potentially out of control.
Nina: Yeah, and I should add, Kel, one more little exercise. You and I kind of jump or bounce. We like shake it off sometimes when we need to regulate. So that's another one. It takes more than one person to argue.
When you match fire with fire, arguing with arguing, yelling with yelling, no one wins. When you can step back and pause, even for a moment to collect yourself, and you let the other person be volatile, out of control and unreasonable, you get to stay in control of you. You sort of drop the rope here. Does that land? In our client's case, once we worked on this and she stepped back while he yelled, he was irrational and out of control and she showed up as the calm, confident, collaborative leader she's proud to be.
Kelle: Yes, yes. This might sound really simple, but it's not easy. This takes practice, and it's a powerful way to shift from reactive to responsive. And this is where we start balancing those masculine and feminine traits, that being energy and that doing energy in our leadership.
Nina: Yeah, again, here's what we see happen when we're triggered. We often default to either pure masculine energy, right, being rigid and authoritative, or purely feminine, becoming overly accommodating and people-pleasing.
Kelle: Yeah, that was not our CEO quote, by the way, as I'm sure you gathered. But powerful, centered leadership comes from integrating both. It's about being able to hold your authority and stay open to collaboration. It's about setting clear boundaries and maintaining empathy.
Nina: Yeah, okay, so that's the pause.
Kelle: Yeah, So good. All right, going back to that rockstar real estate agent and her high-maintenance client we talked about earlier, she could totally keep being annoyed with him, rolling her eyes every time he called, wishing he was different, thinking he should respect her more, right? Another option she had was to fire him as a client and say goodbye to a big chunk of income. As coaches, we always like to find all the options.
Nina: Yeah, there's never just two. That all-or-nothing thinking. And this is where one of our absolute favorite and effective relationship tools comes in. What we call instruction manuals. This is a game changer. And listen, we're actually going to unpack this a little bit further next week, but we'll explain the tool here.
Let's break it down, though. What do we mean by instruction manuals? Think about when you buy a new appliance or even my son's drone. I think of that's what comes to mind for me. It comes with an instruction manual, right? Well, we all walk around with these mental secret instruction manuals for how we think other people should behave.
Kelle: Like people on your team should stay calm in meetings, not yell at you and meet deadlines. Your boss should listen to your concerns and trust your judgment. Your colleague who can't stop talking should stick to the agenda, right? People should be on time. People should be nice and respectful.
Nina: Here's the thing, though, and this might sting a little, nobody signed up for your manual. Nobody got the memo about how you think they should act, communicate, or show up in the world.
Kelle: And let's be real, who reads manuals anyway?
Nina: Right? Totally!
Kelle: Who reads them?
Nina: No, we just fly the drone. Go ahead.
Kelle: We want people to act the way we want them to act, to behave in the way that we want them to behave, to listen to us and give us respect and do what we say so that we can feel better. Like you always say, Nina, you cannot control, fix or change other human beings. And listen, if we could figure this out, we would absolutely tell you how.
Nina: This reminds me of a client last week who was constantly frustrated with her boss's communication. She had this whole manual about how a good boss, "good boss" should communicate, right? Regular check-ins, clear expectations, and thoughtful feedback, to name a few. But her boss? Totally different style. Quick decisions, last-minute changes, sending emails at 11pm. She had a manual for her boss, and he had a manual for her.
Kelle: And that rock star real estate agent client, she had a manual for how she wanted her clients to behave. She wanted them to listen to her, not be so demanding, and to not call her at all hours expecting an immediate response. And this was causing a lot of pain for herself, right? Because that high-maintenance client we were talking about earlier, he wasn't complying with her manual at all.
Once she dropped the manual she had for him and her expectations of him and how he should be acting, once she put the manual aside and really listened to him, what she found is he was just a human being doing the best he could in the moment. He was just trying to sell his house. He was ready to retire. He had a certain number in his mind and he was kind of afraid he wasn't going to get what he wanted.
And she was in the exact right place to understand his position, take care of him, and get it done. So instead of being annoyed, she empathized with him, put aside the thoughts about him that were making her feel annoyed, put some boundaries in place, and put her skills and vast experience to work to make it a win-win for both of them.
Nina: Yeah, this is like the opposite of being in survival, right? This is being collaborative and clear and using your critical thinking and empathy and leaning into that being energy and not just the doing energy, right? Our feminine and masculine and really finding the nuance.
Kelle: It's really cool. Yes.
Nina: So this brings us to another crucial concept we teach and that is X is being X. Okay, let me explain this because it's that powerful. When we say X is being X, we mean that people are going to be exactly who they've shown you they are. That direct report who's always late to meetings, they're going to be late. That boss who never reads your detailed reports, they're not gonna suddenly become detail-oriented.
Kelle: And you're probably thinking, well, that's depressing. But it's actually incredibly liberating when you get it.
Nina: Because here's what happens. When you stop being surprised by people being exactly who they've shown you they are, you stop suffering. You stop thinking, this shouldn't be happening, arguing with reality, right? And move into, of course this is happening. This is exactly who they've shown me they are, right?
Kelle: Yeah, yeah. It's like, imagine every time it rained, you got upset because you thought it should be sunny. I mean, this is me, this is me talking.
Nina: I'm laughing because every time it gets cold, Kelle argues that it should be warm here.
Kelle: And it's winter. Yeah. In Park City, in the mountains. That's what we're doing when we keep expecting people to be different than who they've consistently shown us they are.
Nina: Yeah. And this is where we see so many of our clients and people in general create their own pain and suffering, right? Again, they have these secret expectations, these manuals that they never actually share with people, but they get frustrated when people don't follow them.
So what do we do instead? First, we acknowledge reality, right? We stop arguing with it. Your boss who makes quick decisions and sends late night emails, that's who they are. Your direct report who needs multiple reminders, That's who they are.
Kelle: Yeah, this isn't about letting bad behavior slide or accepting toxic environments, right? It's about seeing reality clearly so that you can make empowered choices.
Nina: Yeah, when you stop arguing with reality, you can start asking better questions. How do I want to show up in this situation? What boundaries do I want to set? What systems can I put in place to work effectively with this person's style? What's actually in my control here?
Kelle: We had another client, let's just call her Maria, who was dealing with a peer named Kate who would constantly take credit for her work in executive meetings. Every single time this happened, Maria would be shocked and upset by it. We asked her, why are you surprised? Kate is being Kate. This is exactly what she's shown you she does.
Nina: The moment she got this concept, everything shifted. Instead of being emotionally hijacked every time it happened, she started preparing for it. She began documenting her contributions clearly, communicating her wins proactively to leadership, and showing up differently. Because here's the truth, rockstar, and we need you to really hear this. Your peace of mind cannot depend on other people changing. It just can't. Because that's completely out of your control.
Kelle: When people show you who they are, do not allow yourself to be continually surprised. Kate is being Kate. Boss Derek is being Derek. That's really one of our client's bosses, by the way. My control enthusiast but lovable mother-in-law Shirley, she's just being Shirley.
Nina: Yeah. Client is being client. That is a key tool we use in all relationships. X is being X. Yeah, and this is where we need to talk about what's actually in your control.
Because trying to control other people, that's a recipe for misery. As a reminder, let's go over what is in your control, right? How you take care of yourself and regulate your nervous system, your thoughts, feelings, and actions, how you set boundaries, how you communicate your needs, and how you show up as a leader.
Kelle: Mm-hmm, remember this work isn't about becoming cold or uncaring, right? It's about being grounded in reality while maintaining your warmth and empathy. It's about leading from an empowered place rather than reactivity. And this is the flex.
Nina: Such a flex, yes. As we wrap up, we want you to try something this week. Notice when you're getting triggered by someone's behavior and ask yourself, what instruction manual am I holding them to? Like what rules do I have that they don't know about that I'm shooting them about, right?
Kelle: Secret rules, yes.
Nina: Secret rules. What is making me feel dysregulated and how can I take care of myself and my nervous system in this moment? Check in, right? What would it look like to accept that X is just being X, right? What's actually in my control here?
Kelle: You get to decide how you want to show up regardless of how others behave. And I just want to say that again, you don't have to match them. You can decide to show up regardless of how they behave. That's where your power lies.
Nina: Okay. That was a lot all at once. Practice these concepts both at work and in your personal relationships. And remember, it only takes one person to show up differently in a relationship to break the pattern and completely shift things for the better. So another way we like to explain that is like A plus B equals C in a relationship. Right. It only takes A to show up differently to completely change C. So think about that.
Kelle: Yeah, we're doing math now.
Nina: Me of all people. I’m terrible at math.
Kelle: Alphabet math. Okay. All right. Until next time, keep showing up as your favorite version of you, not because others deserve it, but because you do. And listen, if this episode resonated with you, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. We read every single one and it helps us improve and helps us reach more people.
Nina: And if you think someone could benefit by hearing this, do them and us a favor by forwarding it onto them. It will help them create more ease and allow us to reach more people.
Kelle: Yeah, until next time, Keep being Ambitious-ish.
Nina: Thanks for being here. See you next time.
— Nina: Hey everyone, if you want more live access to me and Kelle, you have to join our email list.
Kelle: Yes, we’ll come to your email box every Tuesday and Thursday.
Nina: You can ask us questions, get clarity and get coached.
Kelle: We offer monthly free email coaching when you’re on our list and you’re the first to know about trainings, events and other free coaching opportunities.
Nina: Just go to kelleandnina.com. That’s K E L L E and nina.com to sign up.
Kelle: Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode of Ambitious-Ish.
Nina: If you’re ready to align your ambitions with your heart and feel more calm, balanced, and connected, visit https://www.kelleandnina.com/ for more information about how to work with us and make sure you get on our list.
Kelle: See you in the next episode!
Kelle Cobble: Yeah, it could be a coworker, a partner, a client, peers, competitors, collaborators, bosses, managers, team members.
Nina: And what we see all the time in our coaching practice is how these challenging interactions can completely derail even the most competent leaders.
Kelle: Yeah, you're crushing it in a meeting, feeling totally in your zone, and then that person makes a comment that sends you into a spiral.
Nina: Right? And suddenly you're not showing up as the leader you want to be. You're reactive, defensive, maybe even a little passive-aggressive and snarky. We've all been there. Okay, so today we're breaking down some of our favorite tools for handling these situations.
Kelle: Yeah, before we get going, it goes without saying, but we're just going to say it anyway. Dealing with challenging people doesn't just happen in our professional lives. Difficult people are all around us. People with differing opinions that love to voice them. Family members like, ahem, mother-in-laws, spouses, partners, friends, grown children, sibling, strangers.
There is no shortage. So if you're thinking this doesn't pertain to you because you don't have difficult people at work, what we ask is you listen in on how you can improve any relationship, any conflict. We are 100% positive this will help.
Nina: This is gonna be a fun one. Let's get going. This is Ambitious-Ish.
Burnout? Check. Daily overwhelm? Check. Resentment rash, stress, and a complete lack of well-being? Check, check, check! You’re not alone. We’re your hosts, Kelle & Nina, and we are here to help you feel calm, balanced, and empowered so you can redefine success, make choices that feel authentic, and ACTUALLY enjoy the life you work so hard to create. You ready? Let’s go.
Kelle: Hey, I'm Kelle.
Nina: And I'm Nina. Okay, let's dive in. You know exactly what we're talking about. That feeling in your stomach when you see a certain name pop up on your calendar, like that high-maintenance client?
Nina: Okay, remember when we were working with one of our fav clients and she had a challenging listing she was working with? So she's a top real estate agent in a luxury market, so selling this guy's house, her client's house, would mean a six-figure payout. He called her all the time, and she would just roll her eyes and take the call. And it got to where she was deciding whether it was really worth it to work with this client or not to continue to represent this guy's listing.
Kelle: She was really deciding between the eventual paycheck and her stress level, mental health, and sanity.
Nina: Yeah, there was a lot of pain there until we taught her the tools to take care of herself first and then learn how to deal with a difficult client.
Kelle: Right. We're going to break all this down. Okay, so picture this. You're sitting in another team meeting, right? And that colleague, you know the one, is doing exactly what they always do. Interrupting, derailing the conversation, making it all about them.
Kelle: And you're sitting there, blood pressure rising, wishing they would just shut the F up and stop wasting everyone's time. I know like y'all can identify with this.
Nina: I can literally feel the temperature build in my body just thinking about this.
Kelle: Oh yes. This is where we start with something that's absolutely crucial but often overlooked. Regulating your nervous system.
Nina: Yeah, let's talk about what happens in your body when you're dealing with conflict. Okay? Your heart rate increases, your breathing gets shallow, maybe your palms get sweaty, maybe you start sweating like me, period. Just stress sweat. Basically, your body is going into survival mode.
Kelle: And when we're in that state, we literally can't access our executive functioning. You know that part of our brain that helps us respond thoughtfully instead of reactively? We’re operating from our primitive brain, which is all about survival.
Nina: Yeah, I'm thinking about this former client we worked with a couple years ago. We'll call her Sarah She was the CEO and she was in a meeting with one of her directors. They did not see eye to eye on this particular issue and things got a little fiery. He started yelling at her and her nervous system went immediately into fight-or-flight and she did something that led her board of directors to ultimately hire us. She matched his energy and his dysregulated nervous system and yelled back.
At that point, she was in a complete survival state, right? Not thinking straight, not able to be calm and creative, not collaborative, not able to show us the leader she wanted to be. This wasn't the first time, unfortunately. Her volatility was giving her, creating sort of a reputation for her. Her ability to lead was being compromised and her career was suffering.
Kelle: And listen, she was and still is an extremely capable leader. It's just that she was allowing her masculine energy to kind of run the show, being dominant and assertive and showing her strength and authority. And it makes complete sense. This drive, this powerhouse strength she had had gotten her to where she was. I mean, she's a freaking CEO, right?
And we didn't want to take that away, that drive, that fire away, but we needed to add in some softer and more feminine qualities as well, like vulnerability and empathy and patience. We call this being energy. So there's being energy, what people usually refer to as feminine qualities, and the doing energy is the more masculine qualities.
And I'm getting a little bit off topic here. We'll break all this down on another episode, but why I bring this up is you can't be patient and empathetic when you're in survival mode. It's all about fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. You're no longer thinking straight or rational, and it's not a great way to lead.
Nina: This is where we need to practice what we call the pause. Pause and breathe, but really just pause. Before you react and speak up in that heated meeting or react to that triggering email, you need to take a moment to regulate that nervous system. This can look like taking some deep breaths in through your nose and out your mouth. This turns on your parasympathetic nervous system, gets you out of survival, and gives you a chance to, well, pause.
Sometimes you need to remove yourself from the situation. This can look like excusing yourself to use the restroom, walking outside for a moment of fresh air, feeling your feet on the earth and grounding yourself, all the while reminding yourself you are safe. Orienting yourself to your surroundings is another way to calm yourself and get into the present moment. This looks like looking around and naming what you see.
Kelle: Yeah, just some somatic tools there, right? And it doesn't have to be a long pause, but here's what we know. When you know how to take care of yourself and your nervous system in the moment, you put your prefrontal cortex back online, that part of your brain where you're rational, where you're the CEO, instead of being on autopilot and potentially out of control.
Nina: Yeah, and I should add, Kel, one more little exercise. You and I kind of jump or bounce. We like shake it off sometimes when we need to regulate. So that's another one. It takes more than one person to argue.
When you match fire with fire, arguing with arguing, yelling with yelling, no one wins. When you can step back and pause, even for a moment to collect yourself, and you let the other person be volatile, out of control and unreasonable, you get to stay in control of you. You sort of drop the rope here. Does that land? In our client's case, once we worked on this and she stepped back while he yelled, he was irrational and out of control and she showed up as the calm, confident, collaborative leader she's proud to be.
Kelle: Yes, yes. This might sound really simple, but it's not easy. This takes practice, and it's a powerful way to shift from reactive to responsive. And this is where we start balancing those masculine and feminine traits, that being energy and that doing energy in our leadership.
Nina: Yeah, again, here's what we see happen when we're triggered. We often default to either pure masculine energy, right, being rigid and authoritative, or purely feminine, becoming overly accommodating and people-pleasing.
Kelle: Yeah, that was not our CEO quote, by the way, as I'm sure you gathered. But powerful, centered leadership comes from integrating both. It's about being able to hold your authority and stay open to collaboration. It's about setting clear boundaries and maintaining empathy.
Nina: Yeah, okay, so that's the pause.
Kelle: Yeah, So good. All right, going back to that rockstar real estate agent and her high-maintenance client we talked about earlier, she could totally keep being annoyed with him, rolling her eyes every time he called, wishing he was different, thinking he should respect her more, right? Another option she had was to fire him as a client and say goodbye to a big chunk of income. As coaches, we always like to find all the options.
Nina: Yeah, there's never just two. That all-or-nothing thinking. And this is where one of our absolute favorite and effective relationship tools comes in. What we call instruction manuals. This is a game changer. And listen, we're actually going to unpack this a little bit further next week, but we'll explain the tool here.
Let's break it down, though. What do we mean by instruction manuals? Think about when you buy a new appliance or even my son's drone. I think of that's what comes to mind for me. It comes with an instruction manual, right? Well, we all walk around with these mental secret instruction manuals for how we think other people should behave.
Kelle: Like people on your team should stay calm in meetings, not yell at you and meet deadlines. Your boss should listen to your concerns and trust your judgment. Your colleague who can't stop talking should stick to the agenda, right? People should be on time. People should be nice and respectful.
Nina: Here's the thing, though, and this might sting a little, nobody signed up for your manual. Nobody got the memo about how you think they should act, communicate, or show up in the world.
Kelle: And let's be real, who reads manuals anyway?
Nina: Right? Totally!
Kelle: Who reads them?
Nina: No, we just fly the drone. Go ahead.
Kelle: We want people to act the way we want them to act, to behave in the way that we want them to behave, to listen to us and give us respect and do what we say so that we can feel better. Like you always say, Nina, you cannot control, fix or change other human beings. And listen, if we could figure this out, we would absolutely tell you how.
Nina: This reminds me of a client last week who was constantly frustrated with her boss's communication. She had this whole manual about how a good boss, "good boss" should communicate, right? Regular check-ins, clear expectations, and thoughtful feedback, to name a few. But her boss? Totally different style. Quick decisions, last-minute changes, sending emails at 11pm. She had a manual for her boss, and he had a manual for her.
Kelle: And that rock star real estate agent client, she had a manual for how she wanted her clients to behave. She wanted them to listen to her, not be so demanding, and to not call her at all hours expecting an immediate response. And this was causing a lot of pain for herself, right? Because that high-maintenance client we were talking about earlier, he wasn't complying with her manual at all.
Once she dropped the manual she had for him and her expectations of him and how he should be acting, once she put the manual aside and really listened to him, what she found is he was just a human being doing the best he could in the moment. He was just trying to sell his house. He was ready to retire. He had a certain number in his mind and he was kind of afraid he wasn't going to get what he wanted.
And she was in the exact right place to understand his position, take care of him, and get it done. So instead of being annoyed, she empathized with him, put aside the thoughts about him that were making her feel annoyed, put some boundaries in place, and put her skills and vast experience to work to make it a win-win for both of them.
Nina: Yeah, this is like the opposite of being in survival, right? This is being collaborative and clear and using your critical thinking and empathy and leaning into that being energy and not just the doing energy, right? Our feminine and masculine and really finding the nuance.
Kelle: It's really cool. Yes.
Nina: So this brings us to another crucial concept we teach and that is X is being X. Okay, let me explain this because it's that powerful. When we say X is being X, we mean that people are going to be exactly who they've shown you they are. That direct report who's always late to meetings, they're going to be late. That boss who never reads your detailed reports, they're not gonna suddenly become detail-oriented.
Kelle: And you're probably thinking, well, that's depressing. But it's actually incredibly liberating when you get it.
Nina: Because here's what happens. When you stop being surprised by people being exactly who they've shown you they are, you stop suffering. You stop thinking, this shouldn't be happening, arguing with reality, right? And move into, of course this is happening. This is exactly who they've shown me they are, right?
Kelle: Yeah, yeah. It's like, imagine every time it rained, you got upset because you thought it should be sunny. I mean, this is me, this is me talking.
Nina: I'm laughing because every time it gets cold, Kelle argues that it should be warm here.
Kelle: And it's winter. Yeah. In Park City, in the mountains. That's what we're doing when we keep expecting people to be different than who they've consistently shown us they are.
Nina: Yeah. And this is where we see so many of our clients and people in general create their own pain and suffering, right? Again, they have these secret expectations, these manuals that they never actually share with people, but they get frustrated when people don't follow them.
So what do we do instead? First, we acknowledge reality, right? We stop arguing with it. Your boss who makes quick decisions and sends late night emails, that's who they are. Your direct report who needs multiple reminders, That's who they are.
Kelle: Yeah, this isn't about letting bad behavior slide or accepting toxic environments, right? It's about seeing reality clearly so that you can make empowered choices.
Nina: Yeah, when you stop arguing with reality, you can start asking better questions. How do I want to show up in this situation? What boundaries do I want to set? What systems can I put in place to work effectively with this person's style? What's actually in my control here?
Kelle: We had another client, let's just call her Maria, who was dealing with a peer named Kate who would constantly take credit for her work in executive meetings. Every single time this happened, Maria would be shocked and upset by it. We asked her, why are you surprised? Kate is being Kate. This is exactly what she's shown you she does.
Nina: The moment she got this concept, everything shifted. Instead of being emotionally hijacked every time it happened, she started preparing for it. She began documenting her contributions clearly, communicating her wins proactively to leadership, and showing up differently. Because here's the truth, rockstar, and we need you to really hear this. Your peace of mind cannot depend on other people changing. It just can't. Because that's completely out of your control.
Kelle: When people show you who they are, do not allow yourself to be continually surprised. Kate is being Kate. Boss Derek is being Derek. That's really one of our client's bosses, by the way. My control enthusiast but lovable mother-in-law Shirley, she's just being Shirley.
Nina: Yeah. Client is being client. That is a key tool we use in all relationships. X is being X. Yeah, and this is where we need to talk about what's actually in your control.
Because trying to control other people, that's a recipe for misery. As a reminder, let's go over what is in your control, right? How you take care of yourself and regulate your nervous system, your thoughts, feelings, and actions, how you set boundaries, how you communicate your needs, and how you show up as a leader.
Kelle: Mm-hmm, remember this work isn't about becoming cold or uncaring, right? It's about being grounded in reality while maintaining your warmth and empathy. It's about leading from an empowered place rather than reactivity. And this is the flex.
Nina: Such a flex, yes. As we wrap up, we want you to try something this week. Notice when you're getting triggered by someone's behavior and ask yourself, what instruction manual am I holding them to? Like what rules do I have that they don't know about that I'm shooting them about, right?
Kelle: Secret rules, yes.
Nina: Secret rules. What is making me feel dysregulated and how can I take care of myself and my nervous system in this moment? Check in, right? What would it look like to accept that X is just being X, right? What's actually in my control here?
Kelle: You get to decide how you want to show up regardless of how others behave. And I just want to say that again, you don't have to match them. You can decide to show up regardless of how they behave. That's where your power lies.
Nina: Okay. That was a lot all at once. Practice these concepts both at work and in your personal relationships. And remember, it only takes one person to show up differently in a relationship to break the pattern and completely shift things for the better. So another way we like to explain that is like A plus B equals C in a relationship. Right. It only takes A to show up differently to completely change C. So think about that.
Kelle: Yeah, we're doing math now.
Nina: Me of all people. I’m terrible at math.
Kelle: Alphabet math. Okay. All right. Until next time, keep showing up as your favorite version of you, not because others deserve it, but because you do. And listen, if this episode resonated with you, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. We read every single one and it helps us improve and helps us reach more people.
Nina: And if you think someone could benefit by hearing this, do them and us a favor by forwarding it onto them. It will help them create more ease and allow us to reach more people.
Kelle: Yeah, until next time, Keep being Ambitious-ish.
Nina: Thanks for being here. See you next time.
— Nina: Hey everyone, if you want more live access to me and Kelle, you have to join our email list.
Kelle: Yes, we’ll come to your email box every Tuesday and Thursday.
Nina: You can ask us questions, get clarity and get coached.
Kelle: We offer monthly free email coaching when you’re on our list and you’re the first to know about trainings, events and other free coaching opportunities.
Nina: Just go to kelleandnina.com. That’s K E L L E and nina.com to sign up.
Kelle: Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode of Ambitious-Ish.
Nina: If you’re ready to align your ambitions with your heart and feel more calm, balanced, and connected, visit https://www.kelleandnina.com/ for more information about how to work with us and make sure you get on our list.
Kelle: See you in the next episode!
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