56. How To Recession-Proof Yourself During Economic Uncertainty
Are you feeling anxious about economic uncertainty? Do you find yourself overworking, overthinking, or slipping into a scarcity mindset when the financial forecast looks cloudy? What if you could feel empowered and secure no matter what the market is doing?
In this episode, we're diving into how to navigate economic uncertainty with confidence. We'll explore the common pitfalls high achievers face during financial downturns and share practical strategies for investing in the one asset that always appreciates: yourself.
Get ready to shift your mindset, take aligned action, and tap into your feminine superpowers of intuition, creativity, and collaboration. By the end of this episode, you'll have a clear roadmap for thriving through any economic climate.
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What You’ll Learn from this Episode:
How to notice and reframe catastrophic thoughts that fuel financial anxiety.
The top 5 money moves to make when the market feels shaky.
Why investing in yourself is the only investment with a 100% return rate.
How to leverage feminine energy traits like adaptability and connection during downturns.
The importance of diversifying your income streams and building your network before you need it.
Why your mindset is the foundation for navigating economic uncertainty.
Listen to the Full Episode:
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Full Episode Transcript:
Kelle Cobble: What if we told you that security isn't created by your bank account, although that helps? It's actually about becoming so valuable that you can navigate any market conditions.
Nina Lynch: Yeah. With all the headlines about economic uncertainty, we figured it was time to dive in on how we coach our clients to feel sufficient during uncertain economic times and really during uncertainty in general. Right, Kel? We like to help clients shift into the, I've got this energy. Know what we mean? Like, I'm not sure what's going to happen, but I know I can handle it.
Kelle: Yes. And listen, you can bet on the stock market. You can bet on the real estate market. You can bet on other investment strategies. Sure, you can do all those things, but there's one type of investment you can make where you win 100% of the time.
Nina: Yeah, we know, "uncertainty" can wake up a lot of anxiety for people. So listen, no problem here. We're gonna tackle uncertainty in a way that will make you feel more empowered rather than stressed.
Kelle: Absolutely, because here's the thing, the difference between people who struggle during economic downturns And those who actually grow stronger comes down to mindset first and then strategy. And that's what we're gonna talk about here today.
Nina: Yeah, and this can apply to so many different circumstances that are seemingly a downturn. So before we dive in, if you're enjoying the podcast, we have a request. Can you please consider leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, wherever you get your pod on. It doesn't have to be long. Just let us know what you're liking or wanting more of.
We read every single one and it really helps us reach more people. Okay? Yeah. Alright, listen, thanks for that. Let's get going. This is Ambitious-Ish.
Burnout? Check. Daily overwhelm? Check. Resentment rash, stress, and a complete lack of well-being? Check, check, check! You’re not alone. We’re your hosts, Kelle & Nina, and we are here to help you feel calm, balanced, and empowered so you can redefine success, make choices that feel authentic, and ACTUALLY enjoy the life you work so hard to create. You ready? Let’s go.
Kelle: Hey, I'm Kelle.
Nina: And I'm Nina.
Kelle: What we're talking about today hits close to home for me. You know this. I love talking about money and finance, and I think it's such an important topic of conversation, especially for women to be able to be financially literate, to take care of themselves, to be able to have conversations about money and know exactly what their financial life looks like.
Nina: Yeah, you get the eyebrow raise or the side eye when you start talking real about money. Are we right? I mean, I was brought up thinking it was impolite, anyone else? It makes people really uncomfortable But the truth is finances are a major source of anxiety. When you look at couples and what they fight abou,t money is right up there at the top.
Kelle: Mm-hmm. I mean, you know, I grew up with not a lot of money, not a lot of extra money, I should say. We had enough, right, for basics, but not much else. Like my mom and dad were the first to go to college in their families. Like Azteca was a fancy night out for them.
They didn't bring us kids. I've said this before. I studied accounting in college and became a CPA so that I could understand money and finances and economics and know that no matter what, I knew I would never be poor again. I knew how to take care of myself. And I just love talking about money, especially when there's so much political and economic uncertainty.
Nina: With all the talk of possible recession, right? We wanted to bring ways for you to take care of yourselves financially, emotionally, mentally and physically, all of it. There's a lot to consider. So I just read this article in Forbes, it calls out health and financial well-being as the two most important considerations for CEOs to consider right now for their employees.
Kelle: Oh yeah, I don't doubt it. And I think we can all relate to that desire for financial security, especially if you've experienced financial insecurity in the past, right? That feeling financially sound really is at the core of what makes many of us feel safe, like safe at our core. Yeah.
Nina: Yeah, yeah. And that's why it's so important to befriend your finances. Anyone avoiding that here? Don't be afraid to raise your hand. Don't, you just don't wanna look at those statements, do you? And listen, it's tricky when the world around you starts talking about a recession and you're not really sure what that means for you, right?
Kelle: Yeah, I read so many articles over the weekend and actually, not even to write this, I read the articles and it made me dive so deeply. I was just like, all right, we're just going to have to do a podcast on it this week. And I wrote the outline and I sent it to Nina and I was like…
Nina: This is ready to go.
Kelle: Yeah. I was like, all right, let's just do this. So we tabled something else for the next week, and we just want to get this out there so that you can hopefully feel more secure once we talk about what this really looks like. Okay? Okay.
So while we're not economists, what we are seeing is a lot of question marks. There are concerns about inflation and interest rates and the impact of policy changes that might be coming down the pipeline.
Nina: And ones that are already in motion. I'm not really loving watching the news right now. I don't love what I see there. So you know, I dabble, but there's a lot of misinformation and I'm trying to stay informed in healthy ways that aren't going to send my nervous system like into total survival mode.
Kelle: I am so right there with you. And what's fascinating to me is how differently the news and what's happening affects various industries and regions. Some of our clients are in sectors that might actually grow during a recession, while others are in areas that could face a lot of challenges. And it's a perfect example of why we need to take a personalized approach to preparing for economic changes.
I feel like I'm kind of slurring my words here. I have Invisalign in. So if I sound weird, sorry, I'm trying to fix my bite here. Okay, so getting back to this, there's no one-size-fits-all approach here. It's a perfect example of why we need to take a personalized approach in preparing for economic changes. There is no one-size-fits-all here.
I mean, okay, except for betting on yourself, which we're gonna get to.
Nina: Yeah, this is so true. And this is where we start to see the high achiever tendencies kick in that we talk about all the time, right? So if you've been listening for a while, We're seeing three main patterns with our clients when they're facing economic uncertainty. First of all, the overworking. The overworking to compensate, right?
Just working harder and longer hours thinking they can outwork their anxiety. Like, that will make it go away, right? We see the analysis paralysis. Becoming so afraid of making the wrong move, putting all of this pressure on themselves, and then making no moves at all, right?
Kelle: I have never done that.
Nina: Yeah, I bet, yeah. And then third is this scarcity mindset, which makes so much sense, right? Seeing your future or their future from a worst-case scenario perspective, which shifts you unwittingly into survival, fight, flight, freeze, which cuts off creativity, critical thinking and closes you off to opportunities, right?
Kelle: Yeah. And what's so interesting is that these tendencies are the exact opposite of what actually helps during uncertain times. I mean, we see this all the time in coaching. The tendencies that have gotten our clients, these high achievers, to where they are can actually hold them back when the rules of the game change.
Nina: Yeah, that work ethic, right, that served you so well when you were building your career, that stoic, overworking perfectionist, right, can lead to burnout down the road. And these tendencies are what we lean on in particularly high-stress circumstances like economic uncertainty.
Kelle: Because science, right?
Nina: Yeah. When you practice a certain way of being over and over and over again, and you're rewarded for it, it becomes your path of least resistance, your go-to gear when the pressure rises. Does that make sense? You guys have heard us say this before, but yeah.
Kelle: It's so easy to think that overworking, working way more than is necessary, will keep you safe. And it's simply not true. Then the analytical thinking that made you successful can lead to overthinking and paralysis.
Nina: And the passion that fueled your career, that can turn into anxiety and fear. So what we need is a way to dial up and dial down those high achiever strengths so we feel more empowered.
Kelle: This is where we need to talk about that mindset shift that's essential for navigating economic uncertainty. And it all starts with how you're thinking about the situation. Okay, remember our one simple truth, your thoughts create your feelings. How you think about economic uncertainty is going to determine how you feel about it, which then impacts the actions that you take.
Nina: Yeah, my dad is a private wealth manager, and I have to tell you, his mindset about money is so cool and calm. He's like, Ni, we're going to figure this out no matter what. And I'm like, we are? Tell me everything, how? And he's like, we got this. We're going to figure it out.
Like he is so regulated about all of the uncertainty and economy and all the things. So I think of him a lot as we go through this episode. But let's do this. Let's apply our stress better method that we talk about all the time to this circumstance.
Kelle: Oh, fun. Okay.
Nina: So step number one, we’re going to notice and allow the stress. So it’s, just a reminder, it’s totally normal to feel anxious about uncertainty. Economic uncertainty, marital uncertainty, your kid’s learning challenge, what’s happening with the big project at work. Uncertainty is normal, okay? If you have a human brain, you’re going to feel anxiety. Your nervous system…
Kelle: Okay, hang on, I just want to say this, like, don't we feel like there is more uncertainty than there is certainty right now?
Nina: Totally. Yes. I think on a daily basis, we don't wake up with certainty. Right? It's kind of a lot.
Kelle: I think we think do?
Nina. Right.
Kelle: But yeah. Yeah, you're right. It's a lie.
Nina: Yeah, it's a lie. It's a lie. But anyway, so your nervous system might be in survival, right? It's important to recognize the signs and how to get out of survival when we code something as uncertain, right? Because we could go into fight, flight, and freeze.
And so we need to learn how to regulate, to adapt, right? We've covered that in episode nine, “How To Get out of Survival Mode.” So make sure you go back and check that out if you haven't listened to it. It's, I think our most popular download.
Kelle: Oh, yeah.
Nina: So check that out. But instead of pushing these feelings away, the stress, the anxiety, acknowledge them. Kelle and I call this noticing and naming, right? When we deny these feelings, when emotions stay high, thinking is low. So our critical thinking is literally offline and we often make impulsive decisions that don't serve us. So step one is always awareness. Notice and allow the stress and anxiety.
Kelle: Yes, yes. And that always just rings so true to me that when emotion is high, thinking is low. Like I can think of so many examples when I'm just going to say people, I don't even have to name any names, are flying off the handle and there's just no rationality to it. It's just like, what even the F is happening here?
Nina: Yeah, yeah. I see this in myself too. I mean, I'm a coach, but I'm not Perfect. Yeah, this totally happens to me. Anyway, step two, Kel.
Kelle: Okay, moving on. Step two, identify what's causing the stress. So what specific thoughts are creating your stress response? Are you thinking, what if I lose my job? Or even what if we lose everything? Right? Is your brain catastrophizing with worst-case scenarios?
Nina: These thoughts might feel very real in the moment. Right, listeners? But they're often not based in reality. They're your brain's way of trying to protect you, but they're usually exaggerated and full of drama.
Kelle: Exactly. So then we move on to step three. Replace the thought that's creating the stress. So instead of, “What if I lose my job,” try, “I've navigated challenges before and I can do it again.”
Nina: We love shifting what-ifs to even ifs. So give this a shot. Instead of circling the drain and uncertainty, we create some certainty and feel a little more empowered. So you change the, “What if I lose my job,” to, “Even if I lose my job…” and finish the sentence, right? So what if-
Kelle: And that's where your dad swoops in and he's like, we're gonna figure it out.
Nina: We're gonna figure this out. It's that mindset. It's just that sufficiency. It's not even certainty. It's like, I've got what I need in this moment to figure this out. It's going upstairs into that prefrontal cortex. Just, you know, having your own back, creating that, reminding yourself of your self-trust.
Kelle: I think we all need to hang out with your dad more.
Nina: Yeah, I know. He’s awesome.
Kelle: Okay, instead of, “Everything is uncertain,” try, “some things are changing and I can adapt.” Or instead of, “I should have prepared better,” try, “I'm taking action now with the information I have.”
Nina: Yeah, that's a good one too. Instead of being problem-focused, let's just be solution-focused. So notice this isn't about toxic positivity, right? Or denying reality. It's about bringing your prefrontal cortex back online so you can respond intentionally to the problem at hand instead of reacting from your old ways of being, right?
Like you've heard us say, when you're in survival, you literally can't access your executive functioning, the part of your brain that helps you make decisions. And solid decisions are exactly what you need during economic uncertainty or any kind of uncertainty.
Kelle: Yeah. Now, let's get to some strategies. So we're gonna break this down into external actions and internal investments, because listen, both are so crucial. So let's start with the external actions, the practical money moves.
All right, number one, make sure you have an emergency fund. Okay, aim for 6 to 12 months of expenses, start where you are, and just build consistently.
And then number two, review and reduce your current expenses. So look at subscriptions, memberships, and regular expenses that you could temporarily reduce. And...
Nina: Oh my God, the subscriptions, Kel, they really add up. This is worth taking 10 minutes and giving a closer look. Yeah.
Kelle: Yeah. And what's cool, there's an app called Rocket Money. And Rocket Money. if you put in all your banking info and stuff, it will actually identify what's going on. It'll identify your expenses. It'll identify big expenses coming up, big things that hit your credit card. It's cool because I'll just get an email and I'll be like, oh, okay, I got a refund for that return of the thing that I bought online.
Number three, diversify your income. So this could be a side business, freelance work, passive income streams, like anything. And listen, I feel like a lot of this is common sense, but we're just gonna keep rolling with it, okay?
So number four is pay down high interest debt. So focus on credit cards and personal loans first. And then five, review your investment strategy. So make sure it all aligns with your time horizon, and risk tolerance, and all the things.
Nina: Yeah, those are all such important tactical steps, right? But make sure you talk with your CPA or financial planner about the best moves for you and your situation, for sure. The part that often gets missed here is the internal investment here though, right Kelle? The inner work?
Kelle: Yes. This is betting on yourself, investing in you. And investing in you is the only investment where you win 100% of the time. Like you win 100% of the time. So this is where the magic happens. When others are pulling back, investing in yourself can create exponential returns. Okay, so this includes skill development. What skills would make you more valuable, like recession-proof?
Nina: Yeah, this is important whether you work for someone else or you're an entrepreneur. When people are cutting back, how can you invest in yourself and up your game? What investments can you make in yourself? And more importantly, what's holding you back here? Because I think a lot of the women we work with, and a lot of women we know, don't invest in themselves, period. So what's holding you back? So many women don't invest in themselves in this way. So sometimes we need to go a layer deeper is my point.
Kelle: I love it. I love it. What are some examples of skill development and investing in yourself?
Nina: I think it depends on your industry and what you do. But for Kelle and I, it might be another layer of trauma-informed coaching. I think that would be something that I'm curious about bringing in next so that we can really help more clients in a deeper way. That's something that is ethically maybe not in our lane right now. I don't know about that. But that is, for example, personally, something that we could bring in there.
Kelle: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So certifications and trainings, maybe…
Nina: Education.
Kelle: Education. Great. Love it. Second way to invest in yourself that I really love and hits close to home lately, especially, is network building. You have to strengthen both your personal and your professional relationships before you need them. Before you need them. You don't call people and be like, hey, can you help me out, right?
Nina: “Hi, I'm Nina, can you help me?” “Hi, my name's Nina Lynch and I need something from you.” Yeah, no.
Kelle: Yeah, yeah. People get really turned off by this whole networking thing. And I like to think of it as meeting people and seeing how there's some mutual help. Like, how can I help you? I love it when I can help people first. Like, who do I know that I can connect them with? How can I help them succeed? And a lot of the time, I'm just making new friends too over here. It's so fun.
Nina: Yeah, I think this is why I loved PR because that's what it is first, is relationships, or it used to be. You know, it used to just all be relationships. And then when you find two people that need something, you create these matches and you connect them for information and it's just so rad. And I mean, again, your network is your gold, seriously. So when you approach networking this way, in an authentic way, it takes the ick out of it, right?
Kelle: Definitely. Yeah. So number three here is mindset work, okay? This investment is gold. This is where coaching comes in, developing the mental resilience to navigate uncertainty, to be the master of challenges.
Nina: We're all about mindset here at Kelle & Nina Coaching, and on Ambitious-Ish. It's a big part of our success formula, which is mindset plus skill set plus aligned action. So mindset really is the foundation. You have to be aware of what you're telling yourself internally, what your self-talk sounds like, because it can literally run you off the road if you're not careful.
Kelle: Oh, wow. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Next, we have health investment. So your physical and mental health is your foundation for everything else. I know we just said mindset is the foundation.
But listen, health is like the real foundation here. If you know our stories, you know we both have chronic progressive diseases. And I had cancer last year. I'm still getting monthly immunotherapy infusions. And listen, we've made significant investments in our health financially sure, but also mentally and emotionally.
And even more than the financial outlay, it's time spent meditating and getting to acupuncture appointments and massages and all of those extra things, hyperbaric therapy, even just getting out in the world and making sure that we're taking care of ourselves and staying calm and regulating our nervous systems.
Nina: Totally. And what's so powerful about these internal investments is that unlike the market or the economy, they're within your control. No one can take away the skills you develop or the mindset you create.
Kelle: That's exactly right. And that's why it's so important to invest in yourself. You're creating security that transcends economic cycles.
Nina: This is also where finding balance between those masculine and feminine enrgies we talked about back in episode 27 becomes so crucial. And this topic has come up quite a bit lately, so check out that episode. Again, it’s number 27 and we’ll link to it in the show notes.
But during economic uncertainty and any uncertainty in general, most people default entirely to their masculine, or “doing” energy. They want to control, fix, and force outcomes. But that’s only half the equation. The feminine, or “being” energy, brings qualities that are so key during uncertainty. So key to navigating uncertainty.
Kelle: Yes. Why don't you share some of these qualities, Nina?
Nina: Yeah, so this is all about intuition, for example, to sense opportunities that others might miss, right? When we're pushing and forcing all day long, we're not dialed into our intuition. So we're not dialed into our creativity. Creativity is a lovely feminine trait. This is how we problem-solve and find new solutions, right?
We're adaptable. We adapt to flow with the changing circumstances instead of resisting them. That does not work. We're arguing with reality when we do that, right? Feminine energy is about connection, to tap into support networks and our, you know, like we said earlier, our networks.
And then, you know, another one is collaboration. Listen, when you want to do big things, you need people, you need resources. I think one of the most beautiful forms of personal responsibility is asking for help. Engage a mentor, hire a coach, ask a friend, get resourced.
Kelle: I mean, can we just underline this in like bold and sharpie and all that? Because all of this is so important, especially now. It's one thing to like dive into work and continue doing. It's another to like really resource yourself in this way. And when we only operate from that masculine energy during economic stress, we miss so many possibilities.
We get rigid and closed off exactly when we need to be open and flexible. The leaders who thrive during downturns are the ones who can integrate both energies, who can take decisive action while remaining open to unexpected opportunities.
Nina: Yeah, totally. So why don't we, let's take a look at some questions we've heard from clients lately. We've actually coached on these a lot, just very recently. So first, “How do I know if I should stay in my job or look for something more secure?” And if we had time, Kelle and I would totally poke holes in this question.
We would unpack this quite a bit and workshop it with you. But this is a great question. Instead of making decisions from fear, we'd suggest you get curious about your specific situation, right? What's the actual risk level in your current position on a scale of one to 10? Like try to land on a number, create some certainty here, right?
And then track it for a few weeks. Track this risk factor, right? Then consider what your skills are and what makes you most valuable in a changing market. How are you an asset? What are your liabilities or weaknesses?
Take inventory. Create some awareness here. This is a killer exercise to do like every few months, honestly.
Kelle: Yeah. And what Nina was talking about there, it's like that question of looking for something more secure. It's like, okay, but how do you even define secure?
Nina: How will you know? What does that even mean? Yeah, this is another episode.
Kelle: Remember to check if you're catastrophizing, by the way. Often our fears are much worse than reality. I hate to see it. Our brains love drama. They just love it. They just feed on it because that's our negativity bias.
Okay, I have another question: “Should I put all my savings into cash right now?” What? Can I just say no?
Nina: Sorry, that's so funny. Your reaction was so funny. What?
Kelle: This is where personalized financial advice is crucial. Generally, drastic moves driven by fear do not work out well. Do not put all your savings into cash right now. Do not convert all your investments into cash. That would be a hard no.
Okay. Listen, I know a brilliant financial planner. We actually should have her on the podcast sometime. That'd be really fun. Okay.
She would say now is the best time to invest in the stock market when it's going down. And her reasoning is like, why not buy things when they're on sale, people? Yeah, you don't buy when the price is high, right? And of course, listen, I'm having fun with this, but really talk to your financial advisor about your specific situation and time horizon and risk tolerance and all that.
Nina: Yeah, so rock stars, let's lay on the plane here. Economic uncertainty is real, just like uncertainty in general, but your response to it doesn't have to be driven by fear. So take the practical steps we've discussed, but also remember to invest in the one asset that will serve you through anything life throws at you – yourself.
Kelle: Your skills, your mindset, your health, and your relationships are investments that appreciate regardless of what the economic market is doing, what the real estate market is doing, what's happening in politics, like listen, all of it, okay?
Nina: Yeah, that's right. If you wanna learn more about how we can help you prepare, not just financially, but mentally and emotionally for whatever uncertainty lies ahead for you, schedule a consultation with us. We'll put the link in the show notes. And remember, even in uncertainty, you have more control than you think. It's all about what you focus on. What you pay attention to grows.
Kelle: Alright. This was such a fun one. Thanks for being here.
Nina: Yeah, thanks for being here. See you next time.
Nina: Hey everyone, if you want more live access to me and Kelle, you have to join our email list.
Kelle: Yes, we’ll come to your email box every Tuesday and Thursday.
Nina: You can ask us questions, get clarity, and get coached.
Kelle: We offer monthly free email coaching when you’re on our list and you’re the first to know about trainings, events, and other free coaching opportunities.
Nina: Just go to KelleAndNina.com to sign up.
Kelle: Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode of Ambitious-Ish.
Nina: If you’re ready to align your ambitions with your heart and feel more calm, balanced, and connected, visit KelleAndNina.com for more information about how to work with us and make sure you get on our list.
Kelle: See you in the next episode!
Nina Lynch: Yeah. With all the headlines about economic uncertainty, we figured it was time to dive in on how we coach our clients to feel sufficient during uncertain economic times and really during uncertainty in general. Right, Kel? We like to help clients shift into the, I've got this energy. Know what we mean? Like, I'm not sure what's going to happen, but I know I can handle it.
Kelle: Yes. And listen, you can bet on the stock market. You can bet on the real estate market. You can bet on other investment strategies. Sure, you can do all those things, but there's one type of investment you can make where you win 100% of the time.
Nina: Yeah, we know, "uncertainty" can wake up a lot of anxiety for people. So listen, no problem here. We're gonna tackle uncertainty in a way that will make you feel more empowered rather than stressed.
Kelle: Absolutely, because here's the thing, the difference between people who struggle during economic downturns And those who actually grow stronger comes down to mindset first and then strategy. And that's what we're gonna talk about here today.
Nina: Yeah, and this can apply to so many different circumstances that are seemingly a downturn. So before we dive in, if you're enjoying the podcast, we have a request. Can you please consider leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, wherever you get your pod on. It doesn't have to be long. Just let us know what you're liking or wanting more of.
We read every single one and it really helps us reach more people. Okay? Yeah. Alright, listen, thanks for that. Let's get going. This is Ambitious-Ish.
Burnout? Check. Daily overwhelm? Check. Resentment rash, stress, and a complete lack of well-being? Check, check, check! You’re not alone. We’re your hosts, Kelle & Nina, and we are here to help you feel calm, balanced, and empowered so you can redefine success, make choices that feel authentic, and ACTUALLY enjoy the life you work so hard to create. You ready? Let’s go.
Kelle: Hey, I'm Kelle.
Nina: And I'm Nina.
Kelle: What we're talking about today hits close to home for me. You know this. I love talking about money and finance, and I think it's such an important topic of conversation, especially for women to be able to be financially literate, to take care of themselves, to be able to have conversations about money and know exactly what their financial life looks like.
Nina: Yeah, you get the eyebrow raise or the side eye when you start talking real about money. Are we right? I mean, I was brought up thinking it was impolite, anyone else? It makes people really uncomfortable But the truth is finances are a major source of anxiety. When you look at couples and what they fight abou,t money is right up there at the top.
Kelle: Mm-hmm. I mean, you know, I grew up with not a lot of money, not a lot of extra money, I should say. We had enough, right, for basics, but not much else. Like my mom and dad were the first to go to college in their families. Like Azteca was a fancy night out for them.
They didn't bring us kids. I've said this before. I studied accounting in college and became a CPA so that I could understand money and finances and economics and know that no matter what, I knew I would never be poor again. I knew how to take care of myself. And I just love talking about money, especially when there's so much political and economic uncertainty.
Nina: With all the talk of possible recession, right? We wanted to bring ways for you to take care of yourselves financially, emotionally, mentally and physically, all of it. There's a lot to consider. So I just read this article in Forbes, it calls out health and financial well-being as the two most important considerations for CEOs to consider right now for their employees.
Kelle: Oh yeah, I don't doubt it. And I think we can all relate to that desire for financial security, especially if you've experienced financial insecurity in the past, right? That feeling financially sound really is at the core of what makes many of us feel safe, like safe at our core. Yeah.
Nina: Yeah, yeah. And that's why it's so important to befriend your finances. Anyone avoiding that here? Don't be afraid to raise your hand. Don't, you just don't wanna look at those statements, do you? And listen, it's tricky when the world around you starts talking about a recession and you're not really sure what that means for you, right?
Kelle: Yeah, I read so many articles over the weekend and actually, not even to write this, I read the articles and it made me dive so deeply. I was just like, all right, we're just going to have to do a podcast on it this week. And I wrote the outline and I sent it to Nina and I was like…
Nina: This is ready to go.
Kelle: Yeah. I was like, all right, let's just do this. So we tabled something else for the next week, and we just want to get this out there so that you can hopefully feel more secure once we talk about what this really looks like. Okay? Okay.
So while we're not economists, what we are seeing is a lot of question marks. There are concerns about inflation and interest rates and the impact of policy changes that might be coming down the pipeline.
Nina: And ones that are already in motion. I'm not really loving watching the news right now. I don't love what I see there. So you know, I dabble, but there's a lot of misinformation and I'm trying to stay informed in healthy ways that aren't going to send my nervous system like into total survival mode.
Kelle: I am so right there with you. And what's fascinating to me is how differently the news and what's happening affects various industries and regions. Some of our clients are in sectors that might actually grow during a recession, while others are in areas that could face a lot of challenges. And it's a perfect example of why we need to take a personalized approach to preparing for economic changes.
I feel like I'm kind of slurring my words here. I have Invisalign in. So if I sound weird, sorry, I'm trying to fix my bite here. Okay, so getting back to this, there's no one-size-fits-all approach here. It's a perfect example of why we need to take a personalized approach in preparing for economic changes. There is no one-size-fits-all here.
I mean, okay, except for betting on yourself, which we're gonna get to.
Nina: Yeah, this is so true. And this is where we start to see the high achiever tendencies kick in that we talk about all the time, right? So if you've been listening for a while, We're seeing three main patterns with our clients when they're facing economic uncertainty. First of all, the overworking. The overworking to compensate, right?
Just working harder and longer hours thinking they can outwork their anxiety. Like, that will make it go away, right? We see the analysis paralysis. Becoming so afraid of making the wrong move, putting all of this pressure on themselves, and then making no moves at all, right?
Kelle: I have never done that.
Nina: Yeah, I bet, yeah. And then third is this scarcity mindset, which makes so much sense, right? Seeing your future or their future from a worst-case scenario perspective, which shifts you unwittingly into survival, fight, flight, freeze, which cuts off creativity, critical thinking and closes you off to opportunities, right?
Kelle: Yeah. And what's so interesting is that these tendencies are the exact opposite of what actually helps during uncertain times. I mean, we see this all the time in coaching. The tendencies that have gotten our clients, these high achievers, to where they are can actually hold them back when the rules of the game change.
Nina: Yeah, that work ethic, right, that served you so well when you were building your career, that stoic, overworking perfectionist, right, can lead to burnout down the road. And these tendencies are what we lean on in particularly high-stress circumstances like economic uncertainty.
Kelle: Because science, right?
Nina: Yeah. When you practice a certain way of being over and over and over again, and you're rewarded for it, it becomes your path of least resistance, your go-to gear when the pressure rises. Does that make sense? You guys have heard us say this before, but yeah.
Kelle: It's so easy to think that overworking, working way more than is necessary, will keep you safe. And it's simply not true. Then the analytical thinking that made you successful can lead to overthinking and paralysis.
Nina: And the passion that fueled your career, that can turn into anxiety and fear. So what we need is a way to dial up and dial down those high achiever strengths so we feel more empowered.
Kelle: This is where we need to talk about that mindset shift that's essential for navigating economic uncertainty. And it all starts with how you're thinking about the situation. Okay, remember our one simple truth, your thoughts create your feelings. How you think about economic uncertainty is going to determine how you feel about it, which then impacts the actions that you take.
Nina: Yeah, my dad is a private wealth manager, and I have to tell you, his mindset about money is so cool and calm. He's like, Ni, we're going to figure this out no matter what. And I'm like, we are? Tell me everything, how? And he's like, we got this. We're going to figure it out.
Like he is so regulated about all of the uncertainty and economy and all the things. So I think of him a lot as we go through this episode. But let's do this. Let's apply our stress better method that we talk about all the time to this circumstance.
Kelle: Oh, fun. Okay.
Nina: So step number one, we’re going to notice and allow the stress. So it’s, just a reminder, it’s totally normal to feel anxious about uncertainty. Economic uncertainty, marital uncertainty, your kid’s learning challenge, what’s happening with the big project at work. Uncertainty is normal, okay? If you have a human brain, you’re going to feel anxiety. Your nervous system…
Kelle: Okay, hang on, I just want to say this, like, don't we feel like there is more uncertainty than there is certainty right now?
Nina: Totally. Yes. I think on a daily basis, we don't wake up with certainty. Right? It's kind of a lot.
Kelle: I think we think do?
Nina. Right.
Kelle: But yeah. Yeah, you're right. It's a lie.
Nina: Yeah, it's a lie. It's a lie. But anyway, so your nervous system might be in survival, right? It's important to recognize the signs and how to get out of survival when we code something as uncertain, right? Because we could go into fight, flight, and freeze.
And so we need to learn how to regulate, to adapt, right? We've covered that in episode nine, “How To Get out of Survival Mode.” So make sure you go back and check that out if you haven't listened to it. It's, I think our most popular download.
Kelle: Oh, yeah.
Nina: So check that out. But instead of pushing these feelings away, the stress, the anxiety, acknowledge them. Kelle and I call this noticing and naming, right? When we deny these feelings, when emotions stay high, thinking is low. So our critical thinking is literally offline and we often make impulsive decisions that don't serve us. So step one is always awareness. Notice and allow the stress and anxiety.
Kelle: Yes, yes. And that always just rings so true to me that when emotion is high, thinking is low. Like I can think of so many examples when I'm just going to say people, I don't even have to name any names, are flying off the handle and there's just no rationality to it. It's just like, what even the F is happening here?
Nina: Yeah, yeah. I see this in myself too. I mean, I'm a coach, but I'm not Perfect. Yeah, this totally happens to me. Anyway, step two, Kel.
Kelle: Okay, moving on. Step two, identify what's causing the stress. So what specific thoughts are creating your stress response? Are you thinking, what if I lose my job? Or even what if we lose everything? Right? Is your brain catastrophizing with worst-case scenarios?
Nina: These thoughts might feel very real in the moment. Right, listeners? But they're often not based in reality. They're your brain's way of trying to protect you, but they're usually exaggerated and full of drama.
Kelle: Exactly. So then we move on to step three. Replace the thought that's creating the stress. So instead of, “What if I lose my job,” try, “I've navigated challenges before and I can do it again.”
Nina: We love shifting what-ifs to even ifs. So give this a shot. Instead of circling the drain and uncertainty, we create some certainty and feel a little more empowered. So you change the, “What if I lose my job,” to, “Even if I lose my job…” and finish the sentence, right? So what if-
Kelle: And that's where your dad swoops in and he's like, we're gonna figure it out.
Nina: We're gonna figure this out. It's that mindset. It's just that sufficiency. It's not even certainty. It's like, I've got what I need in this moment to figure this out. It's going upstairs into that prefrontal cortex. Just, you know, having your own back, creating that, reminding yourself of your self-trust.
Kelle: I think we all need to hang out with your dad more.
Nina: Yeah, I know. He’s awesome.
Kelle: Okay, instead of, “Everything is uncertain,” try, “some things are changing and I can adapt.” Or instead of, “I should have prepared better,” try, “I'm taking action now with the information I have.”
Nina: Yeah, that's a good one too. Instead of being problem-focused, let's just be solution-focused. So notice this isn't about toxic positivity, right? Or denying reality. It's about bringing your prefrontal cortex back online so you can respond intentionally to the problem at hand instead of reacting from your old ways of being, right?
Like you've heard us say, when you're in survival, you literally can't access your executive functioning, the part of your brain that helps you make decisions. And solid decisions are exactly what you need during economic uncertainty or any kind of uncertainty.
Kelle: Yeah. Now, let's get to some strategies. So we're gonna break this down into external actions and internal investments, because listen, both are so crucial. So let's start with the external actions, the practical money moves.
All right, number one, make sure you have an emergency fund. Okay, aim for 6 to 12 months of expenses, start where you are, and just build consistently.
And then number two, review and reduce your current expenses. So look at subscriptions, memberships, and regular expenses that you could temporarily reduce. And...
Nina: Oh my God, the subscriptions, Kel, they really add up. This is worth taking 10 minutes and giving a closer look. Yeah.
Kelle: Yeah. And what's cool, there's an app called Rocket Money. And Rocket Money. if you put in all your banking info and stuff, it will actually identify what's going on. It'll identify your expenses. It'll identify big expenses coming up, big things that hit your credit card. It's cool because I'll just get an email and I'll be like, oh, okay, I got a refund for that return of the thing that I bought online.
Number three, diversify your income. So this could be a side business, freelance work, passive income streams, like anything. And listen, I feel like a lot of this is common sense, but we're just gonna keep rolling with it, okay?
So number four is pay down high interest debt. So focus on credit cards and personal loans first. And then five, review your investment strategy. So make sure it all aligns with your time horizon, and risk tolerance, and all the things.
Nina: Yeah, those are all such important tactical steps, right? But make sure you talk with your CPA or financial planner about the best moves for you and your situation, for sure. The part that often gets missed here is the internal investment here though, right Kelle? The inner work?
Kelle: Yes. This is betting on yourself, investing in you. And investing in you is the only investment where you win 100% of the time. Like you win 100% of the time. So this is where the magic happens. When others are pulling back, investing in yourself can create exponential returns. Okay, so this includes skill development. What skills would make you more valuable, like recession-proof?
Nina: Yeah, this is important whether you work for someone else or you're an entrepreneur. When people are cutting back, how can you invest in yourself and up your game? What investments can you make in yourself? And more importantly, what's holding you back here? Because I think a lot of the women we work with, and a lot of women we know, don't invest in themselves, period. So what's holding you back? So many women don't invest in themselves in this way. So sometimes we need to go a layer deeper is my point.
Kelle: I love it. I love it. What are some examples of skill development and investing in yourself?
Nina: I think it depends on your industry and what you do. But for Kelle and I, it might be another layer of trauma-informed coaching. I think that would be something that I'm curious about bringing in next so that we can really help more clients in a deeper way. That's something that is ethically maybe not in our lane right now. I don't know about that. But that is, for example, personally, something that we could bring in there.
Kelle: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So certifications and trainings, maybe…
Nina: Education.
Kelle: Education. Great. Love it. Second way to invest in yourself that I really love and hits close to home lately, especially, is network building. You have to strengthen both your personal and your professional relationships before you need them. Before you need them. You don't call people and be like, hey, can you help me out, right?
Nina: “Hi, I'm Nina, can you help me?” “Hi, my name's Nina Lynch and I need something from you.” Yeah, no.
Kelle: Yeah, yeah. People get really turned off by this whole networking thing. And I like to think of it as meeting people and seeing how there's some mutual help. Like, how can I help you? I love it when I can help people first. Like, who do I know that I can connect them with? How can I help them succeed? And a lot of the time, I'm just making new friends too over here. It's so fun.
Nina: Yeah, I think this is why I loved PR because that's what it is first, is relationships, or it used to be. You know, it used to just all be relationships. And then when you find two people that need something, you create these matches and you connect them for information and it's just so rad. And I mean, again, your network is your gold, seriously. So when you approach networking this way, in an authentic way, it takes the ick out of it, right?
Kelle: Definitely. Yeah. So number three here is mindset work, okay? This investment is gold. This is where coaching comes in, developing the mental resilience to navigate uncertainty, to be the master of challenges.
Nina: We're all about mindset here at Kelle & Nina Coaching, and on Ambitious-Ish. It's a big part of our success formula, which is mindset plus skill set plus aligned action. So mindset really is the foundation. You have to be aware of what you're telling yourself internally, what your self-talk sounds like, because it can literally run you off the road if you're not careful.
Kelle: Oh, wow. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Next, we have health investment. So your physical and mental health is your foundation for everything else. I know we just said mindset is the foundation.
But listen, health is like the real foundation here. If you know our stories, you know we both have chronic progressive diseases. And I had cancer last year. I'm still getting monthly immunotherapy infusions. And listen, we've made significant investments in our health financially sure, but also mentally and emotionally.
And even more than the financial outlay, it's time spent meditating and getting to acupuncture appointments and massages and all of those extra things, hyperbaric therapy, even just getting out in the world and making sure that we're taking care of ourselves and staying calm and regulating our nervous systems.
Nina: Totally. And what's so powerful about these internal investments is that unlike the market or the economy, they're within your control. No one can take away the skills you develop or the mindset you create.
Kelle: That's exactly right. And that's why it's so important to invest in yourself. You're creating security that transcends economic cycles.
Nina: This is also where finding balance between those masculine and feminine enrgies we talked about back in episode 27 becomes so crucial. And this topic has come up quite a bit lately, so check out that episode. Again, it’s number 27 and we’ll link to it in the show notes.
But during economic uncertainty and any uncertainty in general, most people default entirely to their masculine, or “doing” energy. They want to control, fix, and force outcomes. But that’s only half the equation. The feminine, or “being” energy, brings qualities that are so key during uncertainty. So key to navigating uncertainty.
Kelle: Yes. Why don't you share some of these qualities, Nina?
Nina: Yeah, so this is all about intuition, for example, to sense opportunities that others might miss, right? When we're pushing and forcing all day long, we're not dialed into our intuition. So we're not dialed into our creativity. Creativity is a lovely feminine trait. This is how we problem-solve and find new solutions, right?
We're adaptable. We adapt to flow with the changing circumstances instead of resisting them. That does not work. We're arguing with reality when we do that, right? Feminine energy is about connection, to tap into support networks and our, you know, like we said earlier, our networks.
And then, you know, another one is collaboration. Listen, when you want to do big things, you need people, you need resources. I think one of the most beautiful forms of personal responsibility is asking for help. Engage a mentor, hire a coach, ask a friend, get resourced.
Kelle: I mean, can we just underline this in like bold and sharpie and all that? Because all of this is so important, especially now. It's one thing to like dive into work and continue doing. It's another to like really resource yourself in this way. And when we only operate from that masculine energy during economic stress, we miss so many possibilities.
We get rigid and closed off exactly when we need to be open and flexible. The leaders who thrive during downturns are the ones who can integrate both energies, who can take decisive action while remaining open to unexpected opportunities.
Nina: Yeah, totally. So why don't we, let's take a look at some questions we've heard from clients lately. We've actually coached on these a lot, just very recently. So first, “How do I know if I should stay in my job or look for something more secure?” And if we had time, Kelle and I would totally poke holes in this question.
We would unpack this quite a bit and workshop it with you. But this is a great question. Instead of making decisions from fear, we'd suggest you get curious about your specific situation, right? What's the actual risk level in your current position on a scale of one to 10? Like try to land on a number, create some certainty here, right?
And then track it for a few weeks. Track this risk factor, right? Then consider what your skills are and what makes you most valuable in a changing market. How are you an asset? What are your liabilities or weaknesses?
Take inventory. Create some awareness here. This is a killer exercise to do like every few months, honestly.
Kelle: Yeah. And what Nina was talking about there, it's like that question of looking for something more secure. It's like, okay, but how do you even define secure?
Nina: How will you know? What does that even mean? Yeah, this is another episode.
Kelle: Remember to check if you're catastrophizing, by the way. Often our fears are much worse than reality. I hate to see it. Our brains love drama. They just love it. They just feed on it because that's our negativity bias.
Okay, I have another question: “Should I put all my savings into cash right now?” What? Can I just say no?
Nina: Sorry, that's so funny. Your reaction was so funny. What?
Kelle: This is where personalized financial advice is crucial. Generally, drastic moves driven by fear do not work out well. Do not put all your savings into cash right now. Do not convert all your investments into cash. That would be a hard no.
Okay. Listen, I know a brilliant financial planner. We actually should have her on the podcast sometime. That'd be really fun. Okay.
She would say now is the best time to invest in the stock market when it's going down. And her reasoning is like, why not buy things when they're on sale, people? Yeah, you don't buy when the price is high, right? And of course, listen, I'm having fun with this, but really talk to your financial advisor about your specific situation and time horizon and risk tolerance and all that.
Nina: Yeah, so rock stars, let's lay on the plane here. Economic uncertainty is real, just like uncertainty in general, but your response to it doesn't have to be driven by fear. So take the practical steps we've discussed, but also remember to invest in the one asset that will serve you through anything life throws at you – yourself.
Kelle: Your skills, your mindset, your health, and your relationships are investments that appreciate regardless of what the economic market is doing, what the real estate market is doing, what's happening in politics, like listen, all of it, okay?
Nina: Yeah, that's right. If you wanna learn more about how we can help you prepare, not just financially, but mentally and emotionally for whatever uncertainty lies ahead for you, schedule a consultation with us. We'll put the link in the show notes. And remember, even in uncertainty, you have more control than you think. It's all about what you focus on. What you pay attention to grows.
Kelle: Alright. This was such a fun one. Thanks for being here.
Nina: Yeah, thanks for being here. See you next time.
Nina: Hey everyone, if you want more live access to me and Kelle, you have to join our email list.
Kelle: Yes, we’ll come to your email box every Tuesday and Thursday.
Nina: You can ask us questions, get clarity, and get coached.
Kelle: We offer monthly free email coaching when you’re on our list and you’re the first to know about trainings, events, and other free coaching opportunities.
Nina: Just go to KelleAndNina.com to sign up.
Kelle: Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode of Ambitious-Ish.
Nina: If you’re ready to align your ambitions with your heart and feel more calm, balanced, and connected, visit KelleAndNina.com for more information about how to work with us and make sure you get on our list.
Kelle: See you in the next episode!
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